1 00:00:00,340 --> 00:00:02,400 hearing on the findings and 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,344 recommendations of the Independent 3 00:00:04,344 --> 00:00:06,511 Review Commission on Sexual assault in 4 00:00:06,511 --> 00:00:08,790 the military . We will have two panels 5 00:00:08,790 --> 00:00:10,568 today . First , we will receive 6 00:00:10,568 --> 00:00:12,401 testimony from the honourable dr 7 00:00:12,401 --> 00:00:14,760 Kathleen Hicks , deputy secretary of 8 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,482 Defense , who will discuss the 9 00:00:16,482 --> 00:00:18,482 formation of the Independent Review 10 00:00:18,482 --> 00:00:20,538 Commission and how the Department of 11 00:00:20,538 --> 00:00:22,482 Defense intends to implement these 12 00:00:22,482 --> 00:00:24,704 recommendations . Second , we will hear 13 00:00:24,704 --> 00:00:26,670 from a panel including Chair Lynn 14 00:00:26,670 --> 00:00:28,760 Rosenthal and members of the 15 00:00:28,770 --> 00:00:30,881 Independent Review Commission so they 16 00:00:30,881 --> 00:00:33,990 can share their recommendations . The 17 00:00:33,990 --> 00:00:36,450 toll of sexual assault and sexual 18 00:00:36,450 --> 00:00:40,130 harassment has taken on our military is 19 00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:44,130 devastating and incalculable . We 20 00:00:44,130 --> 00:00:46,950 do know the numbers , but behind the 21 00:00:46,950 --> 00:00:50,460 numbers are lives destroyed and scarred . 22 00:00:51,140 --> 00:00:53,740 Since 2010 , the Department of Defense 23 00:00:53,750 --> 00:00:55,180 estimates that roughly 24 00:00:55,190 --> 00:00:59,180 135,000 active duty 25 00:00:59,180 --> 00:01:03,090 service members , 65,400 women 26 00:01:03,100 --> 00:01:06,790 and 69,600 men have been 27 00:01:06,790 --> 00:01:09,710 sexually assaulted And about 28 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,360 509,000 active duty service members . 29 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,260 223,000 women 30 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,180 And 286,000 men have 31 00:01:20,180 --> 00:01:22,850 experienced sexual harassment , 32 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,420 one in four service women and one in 16 33 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:29,720 servicemen experienced sexual 34 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,090 harassment , One in 16 service women 35 00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:36,810 and one in 143 servicemen experienced 36 00:01:36,810 --> 00:01:40,660 sexual assault . Service members who do 37 00:01:40,660 --> 00:01:43,540 not identify as heterosexual Who 38 00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:46,720 accompany encompass 12% of the active 39 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,080 component force accounted for 40 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,030 43 Of all sexually assaulted 41 00:01:54,030 --> 00:01:56,450 service members in 2018 . 42 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,096 But these women and men are not just 43 00:02:00,096 --> 00:02:02,560 data points on a power point slide , 44 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,020 they tell harrowing stories of sexual 45 00:02:06,020 --> 00:02:09,670 violence , of careless commanders , of 46 00:02:09,670 --> 00:02:12,420 indifferent commanders , of a system 47 00:02:12,420 --> 00:02:14,698 and culture that fails to protect them . 48 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:18,160 Their voices are all too familiar . 49 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:20,670 Once said I could have been a great 50 00:02:20,670 --> 00:02:24,470 Army nurse . If I had a chance , maybe 51 00:02:24,470 --> 00:02:27,050 I shouldn't have reported it . Another 52 00:02:27,050 --> 00:02:29,410 shared . I told him who had done it and 53 00:02:29,410 --> 00:02:32,060 he says he's a good sailor . Do you 54 00:02:32,060 --> 00:02:34,770 really want to ruin his career ? I 55 00:02:34,770 --> 00:02:36,992 looked at my commander and I was like , 56 00:02:37,540 --> 00:02:40,660 I guess not . I guess I don't matter 57 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,360 yet . Another confided . I was told not 58 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,720 to have a marine who confided in me 59 00:02:46,860 --> 00:02:49,800 file a complaint by my commanding 60 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,340 officer . He felt the girl was 61 00:02:52,340 --> 00:02:54,560 promiscuous and drunk . 62 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,890 And there are more than 135,000 voices 63 00:02:58,890 --> 00:03:01,300 like those since D . O . D started 64 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:04,060 keeping track . They are countless more 65 00:03:04,060 --> 00:03:07,100 voices we will never hear from . But 66 00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:09,250 for over 10 years I've heard your 67 00:03:09,250 --> 00:03:12,070 deafening silence and the tides are 68 00:03:12,070 --> 00:03:15,650 finally turning . Others are hearing 69 00:03:15,650 --> 00:03:18,680 you too . Secretary Austin is committed 70 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,902 to implementing many of the Independent 71 00:03:20,902 --> 00:03:23,013 Review Commission's recommendations . 72 00:03:23,013 --> 00:03:24,920 And he and Chairman Millie are 73 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:27,142 committed to removing from the chain of 74 00:03:27,142 --> 00:03:29,110 command prosecution decisions for 75 00:03:29,110 --> 00:03:32,040 sexual assault , sexual harassment and 76 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:34,660 other special victims crimes . 77 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,960 That is simply the beginning . The 78 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,016 first step on a road with twists and 79 00:03:40,016 --> 00:03:42,390 turns , we must ensure not only that 80 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,650 the prosecutors who are entrusted to 81 00:03:44,650 --> 00:03:47,570 bring justice are properly trained and 82 00:03:47,570 --> 00:03:50,150 focused , but also that the military 83 00:03:50,150 --> 00:03:52,261 criminal investigators have the right 84 00:03:52,261 --> 00:03:55,580 expertise and experience when it comes 85 00:03:55,580 --> 00:03:58,430 to investigating sexual assault . We 86 00:03:58,430 --> 00:04:00,541 must keep working to ensure survivors 87 00:04:00,541 --> 00:04:02,660 competition , a military judge for a 88 00:04:02,660 --> 00:04:04,870 protective order that keeps them safe 89 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,640 on post and more importantly , off post 90 00:04:08,650 --> 00:04:10,890 to and that sexual harassment 91 00:04:10,890 --> 00:04:13,300 complaints are investigated outside the 92 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:15,540 chain of command by trained and 93 00:04:15,540 --> 00:04:18,780 experienced investigators . My pledge 94 00:04:18,780 --> 00:04:21,002 to all the survivors of military sexual 95 00:04:21,002 --> 00:04:23,058 violence , to those who reported and 96 00:04:23,058 --> 00:04:25,740 were ostracized to those who reported 97 00:04:25,750 --> 00:04:28,030 and felt let down by the military 98 00:04:28,030 --> 00:04:30,690 justice system and to all those who 99 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:33,450 were afraid to report and maybe 100 00:04:33,450 --> 00:04:37,230 suffering alone . We will keep fighting 101 00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:40,130 for you . We will keep fighting to 102 00:04:40,130 --> 00:04:43,080 change the culture to increase and 103 00:04:43,090 --> 00:04:46,160 accept diversity to professionalize 104 00:04:46,170 --> 00:04:49,140 military justice . I want to thank the 105 00:04:49,140 --> 00:04:50,807 I . R . C . Members for their 106 00:04:50,807 --> 00:04:52,696 extraordinary contribution to our 107 00:04:52,696 --> 00:04:54,862 shared goals of protecting our service 108 00:04:54,862 --> 00:04:56,807 members from sexual harassment and 109 00:04:56,807 --> 00:04:58,973 sexual assault and to hold accountable 110 00:04:58,973 --> 00:05:01,029 those who violate their brothers and 111 00:05:01,029 --> 00:05:04,080 sisters in arms . I greatly appreciate 112 00:05:04,090 --> 00:05:06,390 IRC . S outreach early in the process 113 00:05:06,390 --> 00:05:08,550 and its partnership with Congress to 114 00:05:08,550 --> 00:05:12,220 achieve meaningful lasting change . I 115 00:05:12,220 --> 00:05:14,387 understand that the commission's scope 116 00:05:14,387 --> 00:05:16,276 was limited to sexual assault and 117 00:05:16,276 --> 00:05:18,053 related offenses such as sexual 118 00:05:18,053 --> 00:05:20,109 harassment and domestic violence . I 119 00:05:20,109 --> 00:05:22,276 believe the commission's rationale for 120 00:05:22,276 --> 00:05:24,276 removing sexual assault prosecution 121 00:05:24,276 --> 00:05:26,276 decisions from the chain of command 122 00:05:26,276 --> 00:05:28,710 also applies to other felony level 123 00:05:28,710 --> 00:05:32,550 offenses that are non military specific 124 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,450 crimes like murder , arson and robbery 125 00:05:35,460 --> 00:05:37,390 are complex to investigate and 126 00:05:37,390 --> 00:05:39,590 prosecute . And commanders who are not 127 00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:41,930 attorneys do not have the expertise or 128 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:44,460 experience to make high quality 129 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:47,530 prosecution decisions and victims and 130 00:05:47,530 --> 00:05:49,308 their loved ones may perceive a 131 00:05:49,308 --> 00:05:51,419 conflict of interest that discourages 132 00:05:51,419 --> 00:05:53,363 reporting . Additionally , I worry 133 00:05:53,363 --> 00:05:55,586 about the consistency and effectiveness 134 00:05:55,586 --> 00:05:57,808 of a system that treats differently the 135 00:05:57,808 --> 00:06:00,390 victims of the worst crimes imaginable . 136 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,890 For example , under the department's 137 00:06:02,890 --> 00:06:05,660 proposal , specialist Vanessa again , 138 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,100 would have been split in the 139 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:10,044 prosecution of that case between a 140 00:06:10,044 --> 00:06:12,290 special victims prosecutor who have 141 00:06:12,290 --> 00:06:14,720 made a charging decision on the sexual 142 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,900 harassment allegations . While a 143 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:18,956 commander would have made a charging 144 00:06:18,956 --> 00:06:21,760 decision in the murder case , this 145 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,927 doesn't make sense to me , and I think 146 00:06:23,927 --> 00:06:25,871 we should improve the department's 147 00:06:25,871 --> 00:06:28,440 legislative proposal at Markup . I also 148 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,662 think it's important to remember that a 149 00:06:30,662 --> 00:06:33,810 2020 G A . O study found that service 150 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:36,960 members who are black or latino 151 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,720 are 2.5 times to 1.5 times more 152 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,160 likely to be charged in a court martial 153 00:06:45,170 --> 00:06:48,110 than their white brothers and sisters 154 00:06:48,110 --> 00:06:52,010 for the same crime . I appreciate 155 00:06:52,020 --> 00:06:54,590 the importance of making sure that 156 00:06:54,590 --> 00:06:58,350 diversity is one that we embrace 157 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,420 in its entirety . I appreciate your 158 00:07:01,420 --> 00:07:03,476 assurances that my efforts to remove 159 00:07:03,476 --> 00:07:05,476 all felony crimes from the chain of 160 00:07:05,476 --> 00:07:07,753 command are complementary to the I . R . 161 00:07:07,753 --> 00:07:09,753 C . S . Recommendations and we will 162 00:07:09,753 --> 00:07:11,864 continue to fight for this key reform 163 00:07:11,864 --> 00:07:13,976 to deliver accountability and justice 164 00:07:13,976 --> 00:07:15,864 for all victims of these horrible 165 00:07:15,864 --> 00:07:17,753 crimes . Thank you again for your 166 00:07:17,753 --> 00:07:20,750 efforts in making our military safe , 167 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,620 safe for everyone who serves there and 168 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:26,610 now we'll turn it over to ranking 169 00:07:26,610 --> 00:07:28,443 member Gallagher for his opening 170 00:07:28,443 --> 00:07:31,200 remarks . Thank you . Chairwoman Spear . 171 00:07:31,210 --> 00:07:33,154 I look forward to hearing from our 172 00:07:33,154 --> 00:07:35,266 panels today about how the Department 173 00:07:35,266 --> 00:07:37,488 of Defense will approach sexual assault 174 00:07:37,488 --> 00:07:39,710 and sexual harassment in the future . I 175 00:07:39,710 --> 00:07:41,599 think we all agree that these are 176 00:07:41,599 --> 00:07:43,821 crimes that have absolutely no place in 177 00:07:43,821 --> 00:07:45,988 the United States military as a Marine 178 00:07:45,988 --> 00:07:48,154 Corps officer , I quickly learned that 179 00:07:48,154 --> 00:07:50,266 sexual assault and related crimes can 180 00:07:50,266 --> 00:07:52,266 erode good order and discipline and 181 00:07:52,266 --> 00:07:54,154 unit cohesion . If not dealt with 182 00:07:54,154 --> 00:07:56,210 swiftly and decisively , our service 183 00:07:56,210 --> 00:07:58,266 members deserve an environment where 184 00:07:58,266 --> 00:08:00,377 they feel safe , a culture where they 185 00:08:00,377 --> 00:08:02,321 know sexual harassment will not be 186 00:08:02,321 --> 00:08:04,240 tolerated in the military justice 187 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,330 system that is accountable and 188 00:08:06,340 --> 00:08:08,284 responsive . I know we're going to 189 00:08:08,284 --> 00:08:10,500 focus a lot of the discussion today on 190 00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:12,760 the accountability line of effort . Uh 191 00:08:12,770 --> 00:08:14,714 the IRC is recommending a tailored 192 00:08:14,714 --> 00:08:16,992 approach to changing the U . C . M . J . 193 00:08:16,992 --> 00:08:19,103 And I'm sure that will receive plenty 194 00:08:19,103 --> 00:08:21,048 of attention today and and healthy 195 00:08:21,048 --> 00:08:22,992 debate . But changing behavior and 196 00:08:22,992 --> 00:08:24,992 prevention is the key ingredient to 197 00:08:24,992 --> 00:08:27,800 addressing adverse behavior before it 198 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,350 becomes unlawful behavior . I 199 00:08:30,350 --> 00:08:32,517 understand that the prevention line of 200 00:08:32,517 --> 00:08:34,739 effort is interested in identifying and 201 00:08:34,739 --> 00:08:36,406 amplifying the most effective 202 00:08:36,406 --> 00:08:38,628 prevention measures . I'm interested in 203 00:08:38,628 --> 00:08:40,683 how D . O . D . And the IRC view our 204 00:08:40,683 --> 00:08:42,683 current prevention efforts and what 205 00:08:42,683 --> 00:08:44,730 tools work most effectively . The 206 00:08:44,730 --> 00:08:46,952 climate and culture line of effort does 207 00:08:46,952 --> 00:08:49,063 give me some pause . More data on the 208 00:08:49,063 --> 00:08:51,286 command . Climate is helpful but I want 209 00:08:51,286 --> 00:08:53,508 to fully understand how the I . R . C . 210 00:08:53,508 --> 00:08:55,619 Recommendations fit with our existing 211 00:08:55,619 --> 00:08:57,660 command tools . The IRC recommended 212 00:08:57,660 --> 00:08:59,716 additional qualitative and narrative 213 00:08:59,716 --> 00:09:01,493 tools for officer performance , 214 00:09:01,493 --> 00:09:03,716 evaluation . That recommendation , that 215 00:09:03,716 --> 00:09:05,827 recommendation focuses on the need to 216 00:09:05,827 --> 00:09:07,271 have officers who elevate 217 00:09:07,271 --> 00:09:09,580 transformational leaders . I would hope 218 00:09:09,580 --> 00:09:11,691 that this desire for transformational 219 00:09:11,691 --> 00:09:13,580 leadership goes beyond the social 220 00:09:13,580 --> 00:09:15,700 acumen cited in the report and also 221 00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:17,589 reflects credibly on a variety of 222 00:09:17,589 --> 00:09:20,250 effective leadership styles . Empathy 223 00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:22,990 is important but so is competence and 224 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,960 lethality . Dr hicks . I'm very 225 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,793 interested in the implementation 226 00:09:26,793 --> 00:09:28,682 timeline you're proposing and the 227 00:09:28,682 --> 00:09:30,904 resources that might be needed for some 228 00:09:30,904 --> 00:09:32,904 of these reforms to happen . And on 229 00:09:32,904 --> 00:09:34,904 panel two , I'm looking to get more 230 00:09:34,904 --> 00:09:37,071 detail on the process and data used to 231 00:09:37,071 --> 00:09:38,682 develop the RCs findings and 232 00:09:38,682 --> 00:09:40,793 recommendations . I also look forward 233 00:09:40,793 --> 00:09:42,738 to discussing some of the specific 234 00:09:42,738 --> 00:09:45,016 recommendations in each line of effort . 235 00:09:45,016 --> 00:09:44,460 With that . I thank you and I yield 236 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:48,280 back . Thank you . Mr Gallagher . Um I 237 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,447 see the presence of our ranking member 238 00:09:50,447 --> 00:09:52,669 with us . Mr Rogers . Would you like to 239 00:09:52,669 --> 00:09:54,613 make some opening remarks ? Yeah , 240 00:09:54,613 --> 00:09:56,947 thank you , Madam Chair and uh dr hicks . 241 00:09:56,947 --> 00:09:58,836 It's good to have you with us and 242 00:09:58,836 --> 00:10:00,947 congratulations on your post . I know 243 00:10:00,947 --> 00:10:03,169 you're going to do a great job . You're 244 00:10:03,169 --> 00:10:05,230 very capable individual . Uh Having 245 00:10:05,230 --> 00:10:07,341 said that , I look forward to hearing 246 00:10:07,341 --> 00:10:09,563 from the Department and the Independent 247 00:10:09,563 --> 00:10:11,786 Review Commission about this new set of 248 00:10:11,786 --> 00:10:13,674 recommendations to better address 249 00:10:13,674 --> 00:10:15,730 sexual assault in the military . The 250 00:10:15,730 --> 00:10:17,897 issue is important and complex . Early 251 00:10:17,897 --> 00:10:19,897 on , service members are taught the 252 00:10:19,897 --> 00:10:22,063 importance of mutual respect for their 253 00:10:22,063 --> 00:10:24,119 fellow soldiers , Airmen , sailors , 254 00:10:24,119 --> 00:10:26,286 guardians and marines , strong leaders 255 00:10:26,286 --> 00:10:28,230 that uh , strong leaders , setting 256 00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:30,174 clear expectations is essential at 257 00:10:30,174 --> 00:10:32,174 preventing destructive behavior and 258 00:10:32,174 --> 00:10:34,008 sexual assault . But when sexual 259 00:10:34,008 --> 00:10:36,230 assault does happen , the response must 260 00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:38,341 be timely and thorough and it must be 261 00:10:38,341 --> 00:10:40,563 backed by professional investigations . 262 00:10:40,563 --> 00:10:42,508 Uh , these are complex cases . The 263 00:10:42,508 --> 00:10:44,730 investigation and court martial process 264 00:10:44,730 --> 00:10:46,841 can be long complicated and extremely 265 00:10:46,841 --> 00:10:49,008 difficult for victims of the Fort Hood 266 00:10:49,008 --> 00:10:51,008 commission looked at three years of 267 00:10:51,008 --> 00:10:53,540 court martials Including 65 trials 268 00:10:53,540 --> 00:10:55,484 involving sexual assault charges . 269 00:10:55,940 --> 00:10:57,718 Those cases unfortunately had a 270 00:10:57,718 --> 00:11:00,330 conviction rate of only 22% . Both 271 00:11:00,330 --> 00:11:03,160 victims and the accused deserve better . 272 00:11:03,740 --> 00:11:06,510 I agree that the time has come to move 273 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,464 the prosecution of rape and sexual 274 00:11:08,464 --> 00:11:10,687 assault and related crimes to dedicated 275 00:11:10,687 --> 00:11:13,490 uniformed onion uniform . Special 276 00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:15,323 prosecutors outside the chain of 277 00:11:15,323 --> 00:11:16,960 command . Military criminal 278 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,849 investigations also need to be to 279 00:11:18,849 --> 00:11:20,849 improve , especially at C . I . D . 280 00:11:20,849 --> 00:11:23,860 Army side . I think these changes will 281 00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:26,200 drive stronger cases . Prosecution 282 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,510 rates may declined as seasoned 283 00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:30,677 prosecutors take hard looks at cases , 284 00:11:31,140 --> 00:11:34,410 but in the end uh this should bring 285 00:11:34,410 --> 00:11:36,440 higher overall conviction rates and 286 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,607 increase trust in the military justice 287 00:11:38,607 --> 00:11:41,400 process and leadership . That said I 288 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,622 still believe that commanders need full 289 00:11:43,622 --> 00:11:45,400 visibility into the process . I 290 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,511 strongly believe that commanders must 291 00:11:47,511 --> 00:11:49,580 retain full authority over all other 292 00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:51,646 offenses . I look forward to hearing 293 00:11:51,646 --> 00:11:53,701 from our witnesses witness today and 294 00:11:53,701 --> 00:11:55,757 the questions and thank you for your 295 00:11:55,757 --> 00:11:59,750 back . I thank the ranking member now . 296 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,060 Um each witness will provide a brief 297 00:12:02,060 --> 00:12:04,171 statement . Each member will have the 298 00:12:04,171 --> 00:12:06,282 opportunity to question the witnesses 299 00:12:06,282 --> 00:12:08,449 for five minutes . We respectfully ask 300 00:12:08,449 --> 00:12:10,282 the witnesses to summarize their 301 00:12:10,282 --> 00:12:12,116 testimony in five minutes . Your 302 00:12:12,116 --> 00:12:14,338 written comments and statements will be 303 00:12:14,338 --> 00:12:16,560 made part of the hearing record . I ask 304 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:18,782 unanimous consent that non subcommittee 305 00:12:18,782 --> 00:12:20,893 members be allowed to participate and 306 00:12:20,893 --> 00:12:23,060 ask questions . After all subcommittee 307 00:12:23,060 --> 00:12:25,282 members have had the opportunity to ask 308 00:12:25,282 --> 00:12:27,560 questions that objection so ordered . 309 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,320 Now let me welcome our first panel uh 310 00:12:31,330 --> 00:12:33,170 dr Kathleen Hicks , the deputy 311 00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:35,392 Secretary of Defense for the Department 312 00:12:35,392 --> 00:12:38,100 of Defense . Thank you for being here 313 00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:42,070 today . Thank you so much . And 314 00:12:42,070 --> 00:12:44,292 good afternoon Chairwoman spear ranking 315 00:12:44,292 --> 00:12:46,237 member Gallagher and all committee 316 00:12:46,237 --> 00:12:48,390 members . Uh Special thank you to 317 00:12:48,390 --> 00:12:50,557 chairwoman spear for her leadership on 318 00:12:50,557 --> 00:12:52,668 this issue over the past decade . I'm 319 00:12:52,668 --> 00:12:54,612 here to describe the Department of 320 00:12:54,612 --> 00:12:56,446 Defense's efforts to counter the 321 00:12:56,446 --> 00:12:58,501 scourge of sexual assault and sexual 322 00:12:58,501 --> 00:13:00,390 harassment in our military sexual 323 00:13:00,390 --> 00:13:02,501 assault and sexual harassment remains 324 00:13:02,501 --> 00:13:04,446 serious problems in our force with 325 00:13:04,446 --> 00:13:06,446 lethal consequences for our service 326 00:13:06,446 --> 00:13:08,940 members and harmful effects on our 327 00:13:08,940 --> 00:13:12,190 combat readiness . This administration 328 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,920 has placed a high , even unprecedented 329 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,760 priority on this challenge set , and we 330 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,090 have moved quickly and deliberatively 331 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:23,900 to address it . One day after being 332 00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:25,956 sworn in , Secretary Austin issued a 333 00:13:25,956 --> 00:13:27,789 memorandum to senior D . O . D . 334 00:13:27,789 --> 00:13:29,511 Leadership , tasking them with 335 00:13:29,511 --> 00:13:31,678 reporting on data pertaining to sexual 336 00:13:31,678 --> 00:13:33,733 assault and sexual harassment . With 337 00:13:33,733 --> 00:13:36,820 information in hand . On february 26th , 338 00:13:36,830 --> 00:13:38,710 Secretary Austin detailed three 339 00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:40,850 immediate actions . He directed the 340 00:13:40,850 --> 00:13:43,072 secretaries of the military departments 341 00:13:43,072 --> 00:13:45,294 to ensure full compliance with existing 342 00:13:45,294 --> 00:13:47,350 sexual assault and sexual harassment 343 00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:49,810 policies . He directed a series of on 344 00:13:49,810 --> 00:13:52,570 site installation evaluations requiring 345 00:13:52,570 --> 00:13:54,930 quarterly reports on installations and 346 00:13:54,930 --> 00:13:57,400 units of greatest concern as well as 347 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,120 those that show promise any required 348 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:01,898 the secretaries of the military 349 00:14:01,898 --> 00:14:03,953 departments to identify and resource 350 00:14:03,953 --> 00:14:06,290 dedicated personnel for prevention of 351 00:14:06,290 --> 00:14:08,457 interpersonal violence and self harm . 352 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,740 On that same day , Secretary Biden 353 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:14,210 directed Secretary Austin to establish 354 00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:15,920 the 90 day Independent Review 355 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,031 Commission , which I'm going to refer 356 00:14:18,031 --> 00:14:20,198 to going forward as the I . R . C . On 357 00:14:20,198 --> 00:14:23,740 June 21 , the ICC provided its findings 358 00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:26,073 and recommendations to Secretary Austin . 359 00:14:26,340 --> 00:14:29,020 Its report was comprehensive , evidence 360 00:14:29,020 --> 00:14:31,150 based , stakeholder informed and 361 00:14:31,150 --> 00:14:33,730 solution oriented . It's 82 362 00:14:33,730 --> 00:14:35,841 recommendations spanned four lines of 363 00:14:35,841 --> 00:14:38,300 effort , accountability , prevention , 364 00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:40,720 climate and culture and victim care and 365 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,210 support on july 2nd 2021 366 00:14:44,260 --> 00:14:46,960 less than six months after stating his 367 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,182 intent to lead D . O . D . Encountering 368 00:14:49,182 --> 00:14:51,349 sexual assault and sexual harassment , 369 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,290 Secretary Austin directed an 370 00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:56,140 implementation way ahead regarding 371 00:14:56,140 --> 00:14:58,029 accountability . The secretary is 372 00:14:58,029 --> 00:15:00,084 seeking legislation legislative help 373 00:15:00,084 --> 00:15:02,307 where needed and directing departmental 374 00:15:02,307 --> 00:15:04,418 action directly where it's within its 375 00:15:04,418 --> 00:15:06,584 purview . He is seeking reforms to the 376 00:15:06,584 --> 00:15:09,010 uniform code of military Justice of 377 00:15:09,010 --> 00:15:11,330 note . We request removing sexual 378 00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:13,430 assault and related crimes from the 379 00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:15,486 military chain of command and adding 380 00:15:15,486 --> 00:15:18,800 sexual harassment as an offense given 381 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,800 the uniqueness of each service . We 382 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,911 seek to establish special prosecutors 383 00:15:22,911 --> 00:15:24,800 within each military department , 384 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,800 reporting directly to each military 385 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,022 department Secretary . The Secretary of 386 00:15:29,022 --> 00:15:31,244 Defense would set standards that govern 387 00:15:31,244 --> 00:15:33,720 the prosecutor framework and in our 388 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,831 legislative proposal , we seek a fail 389 00:15:35,831 --> 00:15:37,887 safe provisions that would allow the 390 00:15:37,887 --> 00:15:39,831 Secretary of Defense to centralise 391 00:15:39,831 --> 00:15:41,942 oversight in OSD , where the military 392 00:15:41,942 --> 00:15:43,664 departments failed to meet any 393 00:15:43,664 --> 00:15:45,887 requisite milestones . Secretary Austin 394 00:15:45,887 --> 00:15:47,942 also directed several accountability 395 00:15:47,942 --> 00:15:50,276 reforms that do not require legislation . 396 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,502 These include standardizing nonjudicial 397 00:15:52,502 --> 00:15:54,336 punishment across all services , 398 00:15:54,336 --> 00:15:56,280 establishing a process to initiate 399 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,447 separation for service members against 400 00:15:58,447 --> 00:16:00,447 whom there are substantiated sexual 401 00:16:00,447 --> 00:16:02,770 harassment claims and professionalizing 402 00:16:02,770 --> 00:16:04,437 career tracks for lawyers and 403 00:16:04,437 --> 00:16:07,640 investigators In these areas . I am 404 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,807 taking a phased approach to developing 405 00:16:09,807 --> 00:16:11,751 comprehensive implementation plans 406 00:16:11,751 --> 00:16:13,862 across all of these recommendations , 407 00:16:13,862 --> 00:16:15,918 although we are on a fast timeline , 408 00:16:15,918 --> 00:16:17,640 our approach is methodical and 409 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,807 deliberate . The Department of Defense 410 00:16:19,807 --> 00:16:22,029 is the largest enterprise in the United 411 00:16:22,029 --> 00:16:24,251 States , with approximately 2.9 million 412 00:16:24,251 --> 00:16:26,307 service members and civilians spread 413 00:16:26,307 --> 00:16:29,570 out across 4800 sites in over 160 414 00:16:29,570 --> 00:16:33,390 countries . This issue set will require 415 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,410 substantial leadership at all levels to 416 00:16:36,410 --> 00:16:38,630 ensure changes that challenge us in 417 00:16:38,630 --> 00:16:41,720 culture , resources and time to ensure 418 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,470 are effective and enduring . We have no 419 00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:46,710 intention of rushing to failure and 420 00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:48,766 risking the loss of faith from those 421 00:16:48,766 --> 00:16:50,766 who have trusted us and to lose the 422 00:16:50,766 --> 00:16:52,932 trust of another generation of service 423 00:16:52,932 --> 00:16:55,440 members . Once we have our roadmap in 424 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,996 place , our efforts will be 425 00:16:56,996 --> 00:16:59,230 consistently monitored by me and the 426 00:16:59,230 --> 00:17:01,452 department , senior most leadership via 427 00:17:01,452 --> 00:17:03,508 the Deputies workforce council , the 428 00:17:03,508 --> 00:17:05,540 Secretary and I are committed to 429 00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:07,810 ensuring sustained attention to drive 430 00:17:07,820 --> 00:17:09,790 these changes as effectively and 431 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,020 expeditiously as possible . The 432 00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:15,190 President , the Secretary and I have 433 00:17:15,190 --> 00:17:17,301 prioritized countering sexual assault 434 00:17:17,301 --> 00:17:19,730 and sexual harassment acting quickly 435 00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:21,907 and decisively . And we have a plan of 436 00:17:21,907 --> 00:17:24,073 action for effective implementation of 437 00:17:24,073 --> 00:17:26,930 needed reforms and we will see to it 438 00:17:27,150 --> 00:17:29,260 that every corner of the department 439 00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:31,520 implements these changes in letter and 440 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,390 in spirit . Our service members deserve 441 00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:36,910 no less and our combat effectiveness 442 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,550 depends on our success . Thank you . 443 00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:45,110 Thank you . Dr Hicks . Um I 444 00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,400 recognize myself for five minutes and 445 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,270 in so doing um would also like to 446 00:17:51,740 --> 00:17:55,560 recognize the presence of Vanessa G and 447 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,690 sister um Maira Gin and 448 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,520 attorney Natalie Co . Um um they have 449 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,900 been articulate , powerful , passionate 450 00:18:04,910 --> 00:18:08,190 in um their efforts to try and make 451 00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:11,860 sure that Vanessa's death and murder um 452 00:18:11,870 --> 00:18:14,790 was not in vain . So , I I appreciate 453 00:18:14,790 --> 00:18:17,880 you being here today , Dr Hicks . 454 00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:20,918 The IRC recommended that sexual 455 00:18:20,918 --> 00:18:23,110 harassment be investigated by trained 456 00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:25,054 investigators outside the chain of 457 00:18:25,054 --> 00:18:26,880 command . I didn't see that 458 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,602 recommendation included in the 459 00:18:28,602 --> 00:18:30,640 department's legislative proposal . 460 00:18:30,790 --> 00:18:33,400 Does the diode plan to implement an 461 00:18:33,410 --> 00:18:35,077 independent sexual harassment 462 00:18:35,077 --> 00:18:37,299 investigations ? And how do they intend 463 00:18:37,299 --> 00:18:39,521 to do that if the answer is yes ? Yes , 464 00:18:39,521 --> 00:18:41,466 Chairwoman sphere . We do , and we 465 00:18:41,466 --> 00:18:43,466 believe that's within our purview . 466 00:18:43,466 --> 00:18:45,632 It's not under the list of legislative 467 00:18:45,632 --> 00:18:47,632 items that I've mentioned . We do , 468 00:18:47,632 --> 00:18:49,632 however , have a full set of the 82 469 00:18:49,632 --> 00:18:52,250 recommendations from the IRC I have 470 00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:54,482 from the secretary until the end of the 471 00:18:54,482 --> 00:18:56,649 summer to go through all of those with 472 00:18:56,649 --> 00:18:58,871 the team inside across the department , 473 00:18:58,871 --> 00:19:00,927 looking at the staffing , resourcing 474 00:19:00,927 --> 00:19:03,093 organizational changes , synchronizing 475 00:19:03,093 --> 00:19:04,927 we would need to do . But as the 476 00:19:04,927 --> 00:19:06,871 Secretary made clear , he's moving 477 00:19:06,871 --> 00:19:08,830 forward with a general disposition 478 00:19:08,830 --> 00:19:11,052 toward accepting the recommendations of 479 00:19:11,052 --> 00:19:13,386 the IRC . We're scrubbing all those now , 480 00:19:13,386 --> 00:19:15,552 but I can assure you that is one where 481 00:19:15,552 --> 00:19:17,608 we absolutely plan to move forward . 482 00:19:17,608 --> 00:19:20,680 All right . Um in Secretary Austin's 483 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,960 february february memo , he outlined a 484 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,127 number of steps including establishing 485 00:19:25,127 --> 00:19:27,127 a violence prevention workforce and 486 00:19:27,127 --> 00:19:29,238 reviewing the command climate at high 487 00:19:29,238 --> 00:19:31,460 risk installations . What work has been 488 00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:33,571 completed so far in these steps ? And 489 00:19:33,571 --> 00:19:35,682 what is the department found from its 490 00:19:35,682 --> 00:19:38,050 high risk installation reviews so far ? 491 00:19:38,340 --> 00:19:40,860 And how will these existing efforts 492 00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:42,360 mesh with the department's 493 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:44,027 implementation of I . R . S . 494 00:19:44,027 --> 00:19:46,810 Recommendations ? Thank you very much 495 00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:49,530 The uh to your last point . What we 496 00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:51,197 found is that the I . R . C . 497 00:19:51,197 --> 00:19:53,086 Recommendations and the immediate 498 00:19:53,086 --> 00:19:55,252 actions we were already moving on mesh 499 00:19:55,252 --> 00:19:57,197 very , very well . So part of what 500 00:19:57,197 --> 00:19:59,419 we're doing in implementation right now 501 00:19:59,419 --> 00:20:01,474 is making sure we understand any any 502 00:20:01,474 --> 00:20:03,641 slight differences that might exist in 503 00:20:03,641 --> 00:20:06,100 how we proceed On your question on the 504 00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:08,230 violence prevention workforce , we've 505 00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:10,452 put in some additional funding requests 506 00:20:10,452 --> 00:20:13,080 in fy 22 that were that are in our 507 00:20:13,090 --> 00:20:15,201 proposed budget that we're in advance 508 00:20:15,201 --> 00:20:17,730 of the I . R . C . Recommendations . Um 509 00:20:17,740 --> 00:20:20,450 So those relate generally speaking to 510 00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:22,561 building out our undersecretariat for 511 00:20:22,561 --> 00:20:25,170 personnel and readiness capability um 512 00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:27,570 in this area as well as providing some 513 00:20:27,570 --> 00:20:29,348 additional resources inside the 514 00:20:29,348 --> 00:20:31,514 services in the military departments . 515 00:20:31,514 --> 00:20:33,620 That is in order to ensure that they 516 00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:35,810 can build out that capability . That 517 00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:38,060 said we saw that as a first step as 518 00:20:38,060 --> 00:20:40,282 well as the I . R . C . Recommendations 519 00:20:40,282 --> 00:20:42,460 were pending going into the fall , we 520 00:20:42,460 --> 00:20:44,627 hope to be able to provide Congress in 521 00:20:44,627 --> 00:20:47,790 the early fall A sense of how much more 522 00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:49,901 we believe needs to be done both with 523 00:20:49,901 --> 00:20:52,012 regard to the FY 22 budget . But then 524 00:20:52,012 --> 00:20:54,890 moving forward the on site installation 525 00:20:54,890 --> 00:20:57,490 process , the review climate review 526 00:20:57,490 --> 00:21:00,900 process there . It's ongoing now that 527 00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:04,320 we have selected those um installations 528 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,750 that we believe require a deeper dive . 529 00:21:06,750 --> 00:21:09,090 Either because they are potential 530 00:21:09,090 --> 00:21:11,430 models or because we have seen some 531 00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:14,340 early findings that make us think that 532 00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:16,530 we need to do deeper dive . So we have 533 00:21:16,530 --> 00:21:18,363 teams already set to go out with 534 00:21:18,363 --> 00:21:20,474 apologies . They may actually already 535 00:21:20,474 --> 00:21:22,474 have gone out , but that would have 536 00:21:22,474 --> 00:21:24,697 begun in the last several weeks if they 537 00:21:24,697 --> 00:21:26,697 have begun that . But we're already 538 00:21:26,697 --> 00:21:28,919 moving out on that on site installation 539 00:21:28,919 --> 00:21:30,863 process . Now , would you make the 540 00:21:30,863 --> 00:21:32,974 committee aware of what installations 541 00:21:32,974 --> 00:21:36,110 are in that particular um , group ? 542 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:39,360 Because I'm looking at the rand study 543 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:41,249 on organizational characteristics 544 00:21:41,249 --> 00:21:43,416 associated with risk of sexual assault 545 00:21:43,416 --> 00:21:45,638 and sexual harassment in the army . And 546 00:21:45,638 --> 00:21:48,770 they point out the five highest total 547 00:21:49,140 --> 00:21:53,000 risk installations Fort Hood , Fort 548 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,890 Bliss , um Korea , Fort Carson and 549 00:21:56,890 --> 00:22:00,680 some small foreign bases . Um , and I'm 550 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,736 just curious to what extent you have 551 00:22:02,736 --> 00:22:04,958 reviewed this and making the assessment 552 00:22:04,958 --> 00:22:07,013 as to which basis to move to first . 553 00:22:07,013 --> 00:22:09,124 We'll be happy to provide the list of 554 00:22:09,124 --> 00:22:11,236 installations . I would just say what 555 00:22:11,236 --> 00:22:13,180 we are doing is on top of what the 556 00:22:13,180 --> 00:22:15,347 military departments are already doing 557 00:22:15,347 --> 00:22:17,291 and the department of our Army had 558 00:22:17,291 --> 00:22:18,680 already accepted all the 559 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,513 recommendations of the Fort Hood 560 00:22:20,513 --> 00:22:22,624 Independent Review Commission , which 561 00:22:22,624 --> 00:22:25,180 itself included an on site installation 562 00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:27,380 review process . So I do believe the 563 00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:29,436 Department of Army has already moved 564 00:22:29,436 --> 00:22:31,491 out on that . So we'll give you both 565 00:22:31,491 --> 00:22:33,713 lists , both , both ours on top of that 566 00:22:33,713 --> 00:22:35,824 and what the military departments are 567 00:22:35,824 --> 00:22:37,770 doing . Um And then finally um the 568 00:22:37,770 --> 00:22:40,110 climate surveys , um certainly the Fort 569 00:22:40,110 --> 00:22:43,420 Hood Review Committee came up with some 570 00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:46,040 startling results as to how climate 571 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,840 surveys as extensive as they are as 572 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,820 expensive as they are , are not 573 00:22:50,830 --> 00:22:53,230 properly reviewed and not considered as 574 00:22:53,230 --> 00:22:55,397 part of the performance evaluation for 575 00:22:55,397 --> 00:22:59,270 officers and NCOS . To what extent has 576 00:22:59,270 --> 00:23:00,826 the department committed to 577 00:23:00,826 --> 00:23:02,881 implementing those changes ? And how 578 00:23:02,881 --> 00:23:05,520 soon will we see results ? So we have 579 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,576 already begun the revamping of those 580 00:23:07,576 --> 00:23:09,880 climate survey approaches for the Fort 581 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,547 Hood report actually was very 582 00:23:11,547 --> 00:23:13,769 insightful in terms of their findings . 583 00:23:13,769 --> 00:23:16,620 Of the way in which the department um 584 00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:18,287 in that case the army but the 585 00:23:18,287 --> 00:23:20,342 department in general has been doing 586 00:23:20,342 --> 00:23:22,453 those Climate Service . So we've been 587 00:23:22,453 --> 00:23:24,509 working to update the climate review 588 00:23:24,509 --> 00:23:26,398 process that we use those on site 589 00:23:26,398 --> 00:23:28,398 inspections . I referenced that the 590 00:23:28,398 --> 00:23:30,453 first wave of those that's going out 591 00:23:30,453 --> 00:23:32,620 will use a new approach , a new set of 592 00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:34,287 questions if you will and and 593 00:23:34,287 --> 00:23:37,210 evaluative criteria . Um So we have 594 00:23:37,210 --> 00:23:39,266 that process ongoing . Now again our 595 00:23:39,266 --> 00:23:41,500 expectation in this phased approach is 596 00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:43,566 now that we have the I . R . C . S . 597 00:23:43,566 --> 00:23:46,050 Full recommendations . We see a very 598 00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:48,217 much validated in their findings . The 599 00:23:48,217 --> 00:23:50,272 importance of climate and culture to 600 00:23:50,272 --> 00:23:52,920 the to the solution set and a wide set 601 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,087 of recommendations from them . We will 602 00:23:55,087 --> 00:23:57,780 be trying to prioritize the order in 603 00:23:57,780 --> 00:23:59,891 which will pursue these items and the 604 00:23:59,891 --> 00:24:02,230 resources required . Thank you . Mr 605 00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:04,119 Gallagher , you recognize for six 606 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,090 minutes . Thank you . Uh dr Hicks . 607 00:24:07,090 --> 00:24:10,090 What crime , current crime prevention 608 00:24:10,090 --> 00:24:13,060 tools do you believe are most effective ? 609 00:24:13,070 --> 00:24:15,403 Do you believe that there are I . R . C . 610 00:24:15,403 --> 00:24:17,348 Recommendations that would enhance 611 00:24:17,348 --> 00:24:19,950 those tools ? Do the second line of 612 00:24:19,950 --> 00:24:21,760 effort from the IRC , was this 613 00:24:21,770 --> 00:24:24,630 prevention line of effort and they'll 614 00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:26,686 be in front of you soon here and let 615 00:24:26,686 --> 00:24:28,908 them speak for themselves . What struck 616 00:24:28,908 --> 00:24:31,970 me in their report , um , is the degree 617 00:24:31,970 --> 00:24:34,026 to which they believe the department 618 00:24:34,026 --> 00:24:36,137 has under invested in prevention over 619 00:24:36,137 --> 00:24:38,303 the years , both at the individual and 620 00:24:38,303 --> 00:24:40,414 the unit level . What they would call 621 00:24:40,414 --> 00:24:42,526 the community level , and what what I 622 00:24:42,526 --> 00:24:44,637 think really stands out to me is just 623 00:24:44,637 --> 00:24:46,637 thinking of whether you're thinking 624 00:24:46,637 --> 00:24:48,914 about suicide or you're thinking about , 625 00:24:48,914 --> 00:24:51,081 you know , self harm or harm to others 626 00:24:51,081 --> 00:24:53,192 and um sexual violence . It really is 627 00:24:53,192 --> 00:24:55,303 this public health approach of trying 628 00:24:55,303 --> 00:24:57,414 to understand how to help individuals 629 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,050 who maybe , you know , subject to being 630 00:25:00,050 --> 00:25:02,217 victims or who may be subject to being 631 00:25:02,217 --> 00:25:04,328 perpetrators , the under investment . 632 00:25:04,328 --> 00:25:06,550 We've had an understanding perpetrators 633 00:25:06,550 --> 00:25:08,606 which was a key finding I think from 634 00:25:08,606 --> 00:25:10,828 the IRC and then that unit or community 635 00:25:10,828 --> 00:25:13,080 approach of understanding , you know , 636 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,302 as part of holistic readiness . How are 637 00:25:15,302 --> 00:25:17,540 you pulling together your unit and 638 00:25:17,540 --> 00:25:20,420 making sure that you can uh can cohere 639 00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:22,364 that you understand your soldier , 640 00:25:22,364 --> 00:25:24,531 Sailor , Airman Marine Guardian , what 641 00:25:24,531 --> 00:25:26,698 they're doing in there , um you know , 642 00:25:26,698 --> 00:25:28,870 time and how they're working together 643 00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:30,981 with others . I think that was a huge 644 00:25:30,981 --> 00:25:33,890 piece of that prevention effort . You 645 00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:36,112 know , I think related to that at least 646 00:25:36,112 --> 00:25:38,230 part of the set of recommendations to 647 00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:41,240 improve leadership within certain 648 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,407 commands . Is this idea that the Iraqi 649 00:25:43,407 --> 00:25:45,670 talks about for more narrative feedback 650 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,450 for officer and leader evaluations ? 651 00:25:48,450 --> 00:25:50,561 How can that type of feedback be used 652 00:25:50,561 --> 00:25:52,839 to evaluate different leadership tools ? 653 00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:54,950 How will you ensure a balance between 654 00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:57,061 leadership and then deployed unit and 655 00:25:57,061 --> 00:25:59,006 the I . R . C . S . Emphasis on on 656 00:25:59,006 --> 00:26:01,228 empathy . In other words , if you think 657 00:26:01,228 --> 00:26:03,339 about the way in which we do feedback 658 00:26:03,339 --> 00:26:05,860 right now , whatever service you're in , 659 00:26:05,870 --> 00:26:08,148 your your review , let's say it's Euro . 660 00:26:08,148 --> 00:26:10,092 Er uh each service uses a slightly 661 00:26:10,092 --> 00:26:12,210 different lingo . Um Those are 662 00:26:12,220 --> 00:26:15,360 qualitative narratives and um that I 663 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:17,570 think really what the I . R . C . Is 664 00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:19,681 pointing to and where we are seeing . 665 00:26:19,681 --> 00:26:22,230 We need to put more emphasis is really 666 00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:24,860 the types of inputs that shape those 667 00:26:24,860 --> 00:26:26,971 narratives . We want to give tools to 668 00:26:26,971 --> 00:26:30,060 commanders at all levels um so that 669 00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:32,650 they are best equipped to meet when 670 00:26:32,650 --> 00:26:34,761 they're right having those narratives 671 00:26:34,761 --> 00:26:36,983 written up , they have the capabilities 672 00:26:36,983 --> 00:26:39,250 uh and the qualities , the traits that 673 00:26:39,250 --> 00:26:41,472 are being sought and then they're being 674 00:26:41,472 --> 00:26:43,639 held accountable , accountable against 675 00:26:43,639 --> 00:26:45,528 those traits . So I think the key 676 00:26:45,528 --> 00:26:47,472 traits to my mind , I'm not sure I 677 00:26:47,472 --> 00:26:49,639 would use the term empathy . Exactly . 678 00:26:49,639 --> 00:26:51,861 I think it's really leadership skills . 679 00:26:51,861 --> 00:26:54,028 How do you ensure that your unit is as 680 00:26:54,028 --> 00:26:56,361 ready as possible ? In a holistic sense ? 681 00:26:56,361 --> 00:26:58,528 Is their equipment ready ? Are they co 682 00:26:58,528 --> 00:27:00,472 hearing as a unit ? Is each member 683 00:27:00,472 --> 00:27:03,260 individually um ready in all senses ? 684 00:27:03,260 --> 00:27:05,320 And are they able to respect one 685 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,542 another in a way that when they're down 686 00:27:07,542 --> 00:27:09,598 range , they're out there to protect 687 00:27:09,598 --> 00:27:11,709 each other and they have that sort of 688 00:27:11,709 --> 00:27:13,931 warrior culture of how they cohere as a 689 00:27:13,931 --> 00:27:16,390 unit . I think that's the kind of ethos 690 00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:18,920 that we're trying to build into how 691 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,460 they think about leadership . And as I 692 00:27:22,940 --> 00:27:25,162 as I think about this , this problem or 693 00:27:25,162 --> 00:27:27,910 set of problems for me , at least 694 00:27:27,910 --> 00:27:30,050 personally , probably the thorniest 695 00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:32,930 part or the hardest , hard to solve is 696 00:27:32,930 --> 00:27:35,740 just the issue of initial reporting . 697 00:27:35,740 --> 00:27:37,407 And I'm struck by some of the 698 00:27:37,407 --> 00:27:39,407 statistics in our overall committee 699 00:27:39,407 --> 00:27:43,360 hearing about , I think in 2018 , uh 700 00:27:43,370 --> 00:27:46,500 cases in a in a survey , but only 8000 701 00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:48,667 of those were reported . I mean that's 702 00:27:48,667 --> 00:27:50,889 a stunning discrepancy and we could all 703 00:27:50,889 --> 00:27:53,111 have our own theory for for why that is 704 00:27:53,111 --> 00:27:55,340 a fear of retaliation . Um , uh , 705 00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:57,294 complexities within the particular 706 00:27:57,294 --> 00:27:59,517 command itself . Just be curious as you 707 00:27:59,517 --> 00:28:01,683 think about how to get at that issue , 708 00:28:01,683 --> 00:28:03,683 um , create an environment in which 709 00:28:03,683 --> 00:28:06,770 victims feel like they can report a 710 00:28:06,780 --> 00:28:09,280 crime safely . Are there any solutions 711 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,420 that jump out to you ? Absolutely . And 712 00:28:12,420 --> 00:28:14,364 I think this is where , you know , 713 00:28:14,364 --> 00:28:16,540 Vanessa Guillen's case is so striking 714 00:28:16,540 --> 00:28:19,160 that she was harassed and went to her 715 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,840 mother and didn't didn't feel she could 716 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,700 tell without , you know , without 717 00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:27,810 consequences . Clearly someone else we 718 00:28:27,810 --> 00:28:29,866 never ever want , that , that should 719 00:28:29,866 --> 00:28:31,930 never happen to another person in 720 00:28:31,930 --> 00:28:34,230 service . So several of the things I 721 00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:36,508 think we're doing and think , you know , 722 00:28:36,508 --> 00:28:38,563 thinking ahead to the implementation 723 00:28:38,563 --> 00:28:41,100 plan , the I . R . C . Team uses this 724 00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:43,560 phrase no wrong door , which I think is 725 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,950 so important , which is the idea that 726 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,810 no matter what base you're at what 727 00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:51,120 facility , whatever door you walk . And 728 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,453 whether it's the family services center , 729 00:28:53,453 --> 00:28:55,590 whether it's you're actually seeing a 730 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,656 sexual harassment , sexual assault , 731 00:28:57,656 --> 00:28:59,900 sexual harassment specialist , victim 732 00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:02,067 advocate , whether you're walking into 733 00:29:02,067 --> 00:29:04,570 the clinic , someone is there to listen 734 00:29:04,570 --> 00:29:06,737 to you and to talk to you . And if you 735 00:29:06,737 --> 00:29:08,681 will intake that from again from a 736 00:29:08,681 --> 00:29:11,320 public health perspective , um is ready 737 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,190 to talk to you the second is the basic 738 00:29:14,190 --> 00:29:16,246 trust issue which has been so at the 739 00:29:16,246 --> 00:29:18,134 center of the conversation around 740 00:29:18,134 --> 00:29:20,190 accountability . But back to command 741 00:29:20,190 --> 00:29:23,050 climate . This idea that um you are 742 00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:25,004 that there is a quality prevention 743 00:29:25,004 --> 00:29:26,893 workforce that you have a command 744 00:29:26,893 --> 00:29:29,770 climate that is um supportive of you 745 00:29:29,770 --> 00:29:31,850 and that you have these resources in 746 00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:33,961 victim care . Those are sort of those 747 00:29:33,961 --> 00:29:36,128 other three lines of effort that we're 748 00:29:36,128 --> 00:29:38,830 really trying to emphasize . Um and I 749 00:29:38,830 --> 00:29:41,052 think you know , there are some smaller 750 00:29:41,052 --> 00:29:43,219 things we're trying out already now in 751 00:29:43,219 --> 00:29:45,720 terms of being able to move um being 752 00:29:45,730 --> 00:29:49,670 you know , having the ability to um uh 753 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,830 choose a different unit , even 754 00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:53,997 potentially a different installation . 755 00:29:53,997 --> 00:29:55,997 There are efforts like that already 756 00:29:55,997 --> 00:29:58,290 underway that we're able to um assess 757 00:29:58,290 --> 00:30:00,457 the degree to which they're successful 758 00:30:00,457 --> 00:30:02,512 and perhaps grow that use across the 759 00:30:02,512 --> 00:30:04,512 force . Thank you . I yield my five 760 00:30:04,512 --> 00:30:07,310 seconds back , I thank the ranking 761 00:30:07,310 --> 00:30:11,090 member . Um our next um Speaker will 762 00:30:11,090 --> 00:30:14,200 be um Mr Kim for five minutes . You are 763 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,660 recognized . Thank you 764 00:30:17,660 --> 00:30:20,320 chairwoman and thank you Secretary for 765 00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:22,441 joining and having the opportunity to 766 00:30:22,441 --> 00:30:25,110 speak with us . The IRC recommends 767 00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:27,277 moving removing the commander from the 768 00:30:27,277 --> 00:30:29,110 prosecution of what they deem as 769 00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:32,120 special victims crimes and referring 770 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,110 special alleged crimes to expect 771 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,830 special victims , prosecutor or some 772 00:30:36,830 --> 00:30:39,052 kind of individual outside the chain of 773 00:30:39,052 --> 00:30:41,330 command who has the depth of expertise , 774 00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:43,441 insensitive crimes . My understanding 775 00:30:43,441 --> 00:30:45,330 is that this would include sexual 776 00:30:45,330 --> 00:30:47,552 assault , but also include crimes based 777 00:30:47,552 --> 00:30:49,774 in relationship or the vulnerability of 778 00:30:49,774 --> 00:30:51,941 the of the victim , such as a domestic 779 00:30:51,941 --> 00:30:54,108 abuse , child abuse , hate crimes or a 780 00:30:54,108 --> 00:30:58,100 casing . So , I wanted to ask you for 781 00:30:58,110 --> 00:31:00,166 additional information terms of what 782 00:31:00,166 --> 00:31:02,054 was the IRC rationale in terms of 783 00:31:02,054 --> 00:31:04,770 defining these particular categories ? 784 00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:08,280 I would really prefer to uh , 785 00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:10,550 congressman kim to defer to the I . R . 786 00:31:10,550 --> 00:31:13,480 C . To describe its its rationale . Um 787 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,140 What I can say is that the Department 788 00:31:16,140 --> 00:31:19,110 of Defense is approach uh has seven 789 00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:21,221 articles related to sexual misconduct 790 00:31:21,221 --> 00:31:24,800 or retaliation and sexual harassment um 791 00:31:24,810 --> 00:31:27,750 in the U . C . M . J . Reforms that we 792 00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:31,700 we recommend . Well , let's look at 793 00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:33,756 those seven then that you're talking 794 00:31:33,756 --> 00:31:35,867 about there . I guess the question of 795 00:31:35,867 --> 00:31:37,922 having , you know , kind of building 796 00:31:37,922 --> 00:31:37,910 off from what the Chairwoman said in 797 00:31:37,910 --> 00:31:40,440 her opening remarks about what is it 798 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,107 that we understand about this 799 00:31:42,107 --> 00:31:44,273 particular problem said , but also how 800 00:31:44,273 --> 00:31:46,440 does this help us understand potential 801 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,662 other reforms or changes that we should 802 00:31:48,662 --> 00:31:50,496 be considering ? So , I guess my 803 00:31:50,496 --> 00:31:52,551 question to you is , you know , with 804 00:31:52,551 --> 00:31:54,718 those seven categories that you talked 805 00:31:54,718 --> 00:31:56,829 about , Is there any reason that this 806 00:31:56,829 --> 00:31:58,829 approach that you're discussing and 807 00:31:58,829 --> 00:32:00,718 presenting would not be useful or 808 00:32:00,718 --> 00:32:02,960 successful for other crimes , including 809 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,070 felony crimes , as the chairwoman 810 00:32:05,070 --> 00:32:07,340 stated ? Is that something that you 811 00:32:07,340 --> 00:32:09,507 think would also provide a roadmap for 812 00:32:09,507 --> 00:32:11,507 how we address those other types of 813 00:32:11,507 --> 00:32:15,050 crimes . We took a 814 00:32:15,050 --> 00:32:17,810 problem centric approach to this issue 815 00:32:17,810 --> 00:32:21,700 and began with the problem scope around 816 00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:23,867 sexual harassment , sexual assault and 817 00:32:23,867 --> 00:32:26,360 related sexual misconduct . And I think 818 00:32:26,370 --> 00:32:28,980 what we did here is a very good model 819 00:32:28,990 --> 00:32:31,470 for how we should approach other major 820 00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:33,560 challenges that particularly people 821 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,727 challenges , but any challenges in the 822 00:32:35,727 --> 00:32:39,190 department . Um , we obviously brought 823 00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:41,134 in outside experts , we had a very 824 00:32:41,134 --> 00:32:44,970 evidence based approach , um and we 825 00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:47,130 engage stakeholders throughout the 826 00:32:47,130 --> 00:32:49,408 department . And at the end of the day , 827 00:32:49,408 --> 00:32:52,600 we were able to bring uh to a 828 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,260 leadership decision from the highest 829 00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:57,940 levels . The Secretary , the chairman 830 00:32:57,950 --> 00:32:59,894 brought the Chiefs and the service 831 00:32:59,894 --> 00:33:02,170 secretaries , etcetera . And we are 832 00:33:02,170 --> 00:33:04,720 dedicated to pushing change that moves 833 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,250 fast um , and delivers for victims of 834 00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:10,306 sexual assault and sexual harassment 835 00:33:10,306 --> 00:33:12,250 for the next generation of service 836 00:33:12,250 --> 00:33:14,528 members . So why do I explain all that ? 837 00:33:14,528 --> 00:33:16,750 I think that's the approach you have to 838 00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:18,750 take beginning with the problem and 839 00:33:18,750 --> 00:33:20,861 trying to identify for that problem , 840 00:33:20,861 --> 00:33:23,083 uh , any of these complex problems what 841 00:33:23,083 --> 00:33:24,972 moves the needle ? And you know , 842 00:33:24,972 --> 00:33:27,083 that's what we promised to do here is 843 00:33:27,083 --> 00:33:29,083 move the needle . I don't currently 844 00:33:29,083 --> 00:33:31,250 have evidence , as I do in this case , 845 00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:33,361 that there is a specific issue around 846 00:33:33,361 --> 00:33:36,090 trust of the commander , um , that 847 00:33:36,090 --> 00:33:38,750 weighs in the balance . At the same 848 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:42,720 time , we scoped this , uh , particular 849 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,400 approach in our legislation , 850 00:33:44,410 --> 00:33:47,550 understanding that faith , that that 851 00:33:47,550 --> 00:33:49,717 good order and discipline , that faith 852 00:33:49,717 --> 00:33:51,720 and trust between commander and 853 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,080 commanded is absolutely vital to 854 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,520 military readiness . So we're trying to 855 00:33:56,530 --> 00:33:58,752 uh , make sure we take an approach that 856 00:33:58,752 --> 00:34:02,120 reinforces that trust that addresses a 857 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,110 specific problem in an evidence based 858 00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:07,610 way and that we can implement to 859 00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:10,790 deliver real changes in a system that 860 00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:13,210 needs this change to deliver for sexual 861 00:34:13,210 --> 00:34:15,432 assault and sexual harassment victims . 862 00:34:15,432 --> 00:34:17,321 That , to me is the way we should 863 00:34:17,321 --> 00:34:19,543 address any other types of challenges , 864 00:34:19,543 --> 00:34:21,710 whether it's about military justice or 865 00:34:21,710 --> 00:34:23,988 anything else in the department . Well , 866 00:34:23,988 --> 00:34:26,154 I appreciate that . I do have to say I 867 00:34:26,154 --> 00:34:28,850 admire the approach that was taken and 868 00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:31,760 the thoughtfulness and the , you know , 869 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,927 the intensity and focus with which you 870 00:34:33,927 --> 00:34:35,704 approach this . So I I guess my 871 00:34:35,704 --> 00:34:37,871 question there is , you know , we have 872 00:34:37,871 --> 00:34:40,093 had members of Congress and others have 873 00:34:40,093 --> 00:34:42,149 raised concerns about other types of 874 00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:44,660 crimes . Is the duty currently planning 875 00:34:44,670 --> 00:34:47,030 at an hour down the road to have an IRC 876 00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:49,680 type review on handling other felony 877 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,320 level crimes . We don't currently have 878 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,850 that we're happy to work with Congress 879 00:34:55,850 --> 00:34:57,980 to pursue that . I certainly have no 880 00:34:57,980 --> 00:35:00,260 objection to to looking at that issue 881 00:35:00,260 --> 00:35:02,371 down the line . But that has not been 882 00:35:02,371 --> 00:35:04,538 something that's been raised either by 883 00:35:04,538 --> 00:35:06,427 Congress or in other G . A . I've 884 00:35:06,427 --> 00:35:08,593 looked through all G A . O et cetera . 885 00:35:08,593 --> 00:35:10,704 That has not come up yet . But we are 886 00:35:10,704 --> 00:35:12,927 happy to pursue that . Um , and I think 887 00:35:12,927 --> 00:35:14,704 the key is to frame the problem 888 00:35:14,704 --> 00:35:16,482 question . Right , so we are as 889 00:35:16,482 --> 00:35:18,704 responsive as possible to what the what 890 00:35:18,704 --> 00:35:21,260 the question is . I appreciate it . 891 00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:23,920 Your back , Carolyn , the gentleman 892 00:35:24,540 --> 00:35:28,170 yields Deputy Secretary . You are aware 893 00:35:28,170 --> 00:35:31,110 of course , that many other countries 894 00:35:31,110 --> 00:35:35,000 have included nonmilitary felonies 895 00:35:35,010 --> 00:35:37,177 and it has not impacted good order and 896 00:35:37,177 --> 00:35:40,350 discipline or unit cohesion including 897 00:35:40,350 --> 00:35:43,860 the UK Canada Germany Israel , correct ? 898 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,607 I am aware that other systems use that 899 00:35:46,607 --> 00:35:49,290 approach . I am not uh cannot say to 900 00:35:49,290 --> 00:35:51,720 you today what the outcome based view 901 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,870 is uh , from military justice experts 902 00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:57,092 on those outcomes without prejudice . I 903 00:35:57,092 --> 00:36:00,040 say that All right . Um , now Mr 904 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,210 McClain you are recognized for five 905 00:36:02,210 --> 00:36:03,210 minutes . 906 00:36:06,930 --> 00:36:09,263 I don't see you on the screen . Are you ? 907 00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:11,630 Are you with us ? 908 00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:18,174 Well , we'll come back to you . Mr 909 00:36:18,174 --> 00:36:20,286 Jackson . You are recognized for five 910 00:36:20,286 --> 00:36:22,790 minutes . Thank you . Chairwoman spear 911 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,022 and ranking member Gallagher for having 912 00:36:25,022 --> 00:36:27,244 this hearing today . Also want to thank 913 00:36:27,244 --> 00:36:29,467 DR Hicks for being here from my time in 914 00:36:29,467 --> 00:36:29,060 the military . I know that it's 915 00:36:29,060 --> 00:36:31,060 possible for there to be a gap that 916 00:36:31,060 --> 00:36:33,270 exists between senior leaders , what 917 00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:35,270 they believe is happening under the 918 00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:37,159 commands and what junior enlisted 919 00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:39,326 servers . Service members are actually 920 00:36:39,326 --> 00:36:41,381 experiencing it . Well , this is not 921 00:36:41,381 --> 00:36:43,326 exclusive to any one aspect of the 922 00:36:43,326 --> 00:36:43,250 military . That disconnect can be 923 00:36:43,250 --> 00:36:45,670 heightened can be highlighted when we 924 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,513 discuss sexual assault and other 925 00:36:47,513 --> 00:36:49,736 special victims crimes . We come here , 926 00:36:50,430 --> 00:36:52,319 we come here each week to discuss 927 00:36:52,319 --> 00:36:54,208 modernization efforts and ways to 928 00:36:54,208 --> 00:36:56,041 improve readiness . But the most 929 00:36:56,041 --> 00:36:55,810 important thing we do is to take care 930 00:36:55,810 --> 00:36:57,921 of the service members . So again , I 931 00:36:57,921 --> 00:36:59,977 do appreciate the chairwoman holding 932 00:36:59,977 --> 00:37:02,254 this hearing today . Thank you , ma'am . 933 00:37:02,254 --> 00:37:04,310 As a husband , a father in a retired 934 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:06,421 flag officer . I firmly believed that 935 00:37:06,421 --> 00:37:08,588 even one instance of sexual assault is 936 00:37:08,588 --> 00:37:10,699 far too many . While we work together 937 00:37:10,699 --> 00:37:13,032 on a bipartisan basis to find solutions , 938 00:37:13,032 --> 00:37:15,366 I want to ensure that is not lost on us , 939 00:37:15,366 --> 00:37:17,588 that we have commanders in our military 940 00:37:17,588 --> 00:37:17,120 who do things the right way and lead 941 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,287 courageously to address these issues . 942 00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:22,341 I believe that it is important that a 943 00:37:22,341 --> 00:37:24,508 commander is engaged in all aspects of 944 00:37:24,508 --> 00:37:26,619 his or her unit so that he or she has 945 00:37:26,619 --> 00:37:28,341 the entire picture when making 946 00:37:28,341 --> 00:37:30,452 decisions , making informed decisions 947 00:37:30,452 --> 00:37:32,619 is a key component of being a leader . 948 00:37:32,619 --> 00:37:34,674 By relegating commanders to a lesser 949 00:37:34,674 --> 00:37:36,786 role in the military justice . I feel 950 00:37:36,786 --> 00:37:36,580 it could undermine the foundation of a 951 00:37:36,580 --> 00:37:38,636 unit commanders , would have all the 952 00:37:38,636 --> 00:37:40,802 accountability for crimes committed in 953 00:37:40,802 --> 00:37:42,802 their unit , but would not have the 954 00:37:42,802 --> 00:37:44,913 authority to fully discipline certain 955 00:37:44,913 --> 00:37:46,969 conduct . DR hicks . I have concerns 956 00:37:46,969 --> 00:37:48,969 that by removing the prosecution of 957 00:37:48,969 --> 00:37:51,247 these crimes from the chain of command , 958 00:37:51,247 --> 00:37:53,358 that we will inadvertently reduce the 959 00:37:53,358 --> 00:37:55,524 overall effectiveness of a commander . 960 00:37:55,524 --> 00:37:57,858 Do you share these concerns ? And if so , 961 00:37:57,858 --> 00:38:01,320 why ? And if not why not Congressman 962 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,670 Jackson ? I think the way I would frame 963 00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:05,614 this from our perspective , having 964 00:38:05,614 --> 00:38:07,890 looked so hard at exactly this issue is 965 00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:11,110 we have identified in this class this 966 00:38:11,110 --> 00:38:14,150 category of cases , a very specific 967 00:38:14,620 --> 00:38:18,450 concern , evidenced concern around 968 00:38:18,450 --> 00:38:22,110 trust in command and we believe that it 969 00:38:22,110 --> 00:38:24,760 has the price we are paying for . That 970 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,400 lack of trust is not acceptable . And 971 00:38:28,410 --> 00:38:31,150 that's what we do have concerns about 972 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,390 ensuring , as I've said before , I hear 973 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,080 that the quality of readiness , 974 00:38:38,090 --> 00:38:40,790 that quality of connection between 975 00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:43,180 commander and commanded is retained . 976 00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:45,920 So we not we don't just simply take 977 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,031 something out of the chain of command 978 00:38:48,031 --> 00:38:50,087 that's that's looking past . I think 979 00:38:50,087 --> 00:38:52,142 the whole of what we're trying to do 980 00:38:52,142 --> 00:38:54,364 here , what we're trying to do is build 981 00:38:54,364 --> 00:38:56,364 trust in the system , build tools , 982 00:38:56,364 --> 00:38:58,476 build tools for victims , build tools 983 00:38:58,476 --> 00:39:00,476 in the prevention force , but build 984 00:39:00,476 --> 00:39:02,587 tools for commanders so that they are 985 00:39:02,587 --> 00:39:04,309 in a stronger position to stay 986 00:39:04,309 --> 00:39:06,531 connected . Even as we make this this , 987 00:39:06,531 --> 00:39:08,809 um , this class of cases , if you will , 988 00:39:08,809 --> 00:39:10,809 these class of offenses , something 989 00:39:10,809 --> 00:39:12,920 that's pulled out , which is the best 990 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,809 in class practice in the civilian 991 00:39:14,809 --> 00:39:16,698 sector to have , uh , this set of 992 00:39:16,698 --> 00:39:19,120 sexual misconduct efforts be a separate 993 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,009 prosecutorial approach . So we're 994 00:39:21,009 --> 00:39:22,953 following best practice . We think 995 00:39:22,953 --> 00:39:24,953 there . Yes , ma'am , thank you . I 996 00:39:24,953 --> 00:39:27,120 agree that what we're doing now is not 997 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,231 working , So thank you . Uh there are 998 00:39:29,231 --> 00:39:29,210 many factors that are involved in 999 00:39:29,210 --> 00:39:31,377 looking at any given case . Dr hicks . 1000 00:39:31,377 --> 00:39:33,210 Once again , I just ask one more 1001 00:39:33,210 --> 00:39:35,432 question what percentage of substantial 1002 00:39:35,432 --> 00:39:37,488 case are substantiated cases are not 1003 00:39:37,488 --> 00:39:39,654 prosecuted due to issues with evidence 1004 00:39:39,654 --> 00:39:41,910 or reluctance from the victim . And how 1005 00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:44,132 do how does the how did the Independent 1006 00:39:44,132 --> 00:39:46,299 Review Commission's recommendations or 1007 00:39:46,299 --> 00:39:48,466 changes to the U . C . M . J . Address 1008 00:39:48,466 --> 00:39:50,632 these fundamental issues congressman . 1009 00:39:50,632 --> 00:39:52,799 I'd have to take that for the record . 1010 00:39:52,799 --> 00:39:54,910 I don't have that data in front of me 1011 00:39:54,910 --> 00:39:56,910 and the IRC may have better data in 1012 00:39:56,910 --> 00:39:58,854 their panel . Okay . Thank you . I 1013 00:39:58,854 --> 00:40:01,077 appreciate that . Uh thank you for your 1014 00:40:01,077 --> 00:40:03,299 thoughtful response . I take this issue 1015 00:40:03,299 --> 00:40:05,466 very seriously , but I do not but I do 1016 00:40:05,466 --> 00:40:07,577 want to ensure that we look at all of 1017 00:40:07,577 --> 00:40:07,180 the implications as we move forward on 1018 00:40:07,180 --> 00:40:09,347 this year's N . D . A . I look forward 1019 00:40:09,347 --> 00:40:11,458 to working with you and my colleagues 1020 00:40:11,458 --> 00:40:13,124 here on the committee and the 1021 00:40:13,124 --> 00:40:12,780 subcommittee to take care of the men 1022 00:40:12,780 --> 00:40:14,891 and women who are serving our country 1023 00:40:14,891 --> 00:40:16,891 and with that madam chair , I yield 1024 00:40:16,891 --> 00:40:19,002 back thank you . The gentleman yields 1025 00:40:19,002 --> 00:40:21,224 back . Uh the gentle lady from texas is 1026 00:40:21,224 --> 00:40:23,447 recognized for five minutes . Thank you 1027 00:40:23,447 --> 00:40:25,336 madam Chair and thank you so much 1028 00:40:25,336 --> 00:40:27,558 Doctor Hicks for your testimony and for 1029 00:40:27,558 --> 00:40:29,669 your work on this issue . I represent 1030 00:40:29,669 --> 00:40:31,780 el paso texas , which is home to Fort 1031 00:40:31,780 --> 00:40:33,830 Bliss . One of the 1032 00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:36,920 installations listed one of the 1033 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,410 installations of concern and one of the 1034 00:40:40,410 --> 00:40:42,521 things that I'd like to share with my 1035 00:40:42,521 --> 00:40:45,070 colleagues and with you as I've learned 1036 00:40:45,070 --> 00:40:48,280 more about this issue , especially with 1037 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,169 what's transpired at the military 1038 00:40:50,169 --> 00:40:51,891 installation that I have . The 1039 00:40:51,891 --> 00:40:54,250 incredible privilege of representing is 1040 00:40:54,250 --> 00:40:57,760 that sexual assault frequently is not 1041 00:40:57,770 --> 00:41:01,120 isolated in its impact . And it's 1042 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,920 frequently not the the only thing that 1043 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,230 is occurring around that woman because 1044 00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:10,452 more free , most frequently it's it's a 1045 00:41:10,452 --> 00:41:12,174 woman who's assaulted although 1046 00:41:12,174 --> 00:41:15,130 obviously men are as well , but they're , 1047 00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:17,910 what I have found is that there are , 1048 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,680 um , other facets of this 1049 00:41:20,700 --> 00:41:24,560 suicide drug use , alcohol 1050 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,440 use harassment , um , all sorts 1051 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,540 of other components , which is why I 1052 00:41:31,550 --> 00:41:34,190 feel very strongly that in terms of 1053 00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:37,810 removing felonies from the chain of 1054 00:41:37,810 --> 00:41:40,170 command and putting them in 1055 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,240 outside of the chain 1056 00:41:44,010 --> 00:41:46,410 that addresses and acknowledges the 1057 00:41:46,410 --> 00:41:49,990 complexity around the kind of 1058 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,110 criminal activity that leads to or 1059 00:41:53,110 --> 00:41:55,380 includes sexual assault . So I just I 1060 00:41:55,380 --> 00:41:57,547 wanted to share that with you and with 1061 00:41:57,547 --> 00:41:59,769 my colleagues . Um , just so that , you 1062 00:41:59,769 --> 00:42:01,713 know , the lens through which I am 1063 00:42:01,713 --> 00:42:03,824 looking at much of this and it's been 1064 00:42:03,824 --> 00:42:06,158 shaped by what's happened at Fort Bliss . 1065 00:42:06,158 --> 00:42:09,250 I'm very curious and it's I'd like to 1066 00:42:09,250 --> 00:42:11,490 learn more about the deeper dive that 1067 00:42:11,490 --> 00:42:13,712 you were talking about with the on site 1068 00:42:13,712 --> 00:42:16,450 installation process . What is the 1069 00:42:16,450 --> 00:42:18,506 general timeline for that ? What are 1070 00:42:18,506 --> 00:42:20,890 you all looking at ? What are the 1071 00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:24,880 parameters for review when you do 1072 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,920 have the final results of that deeper 1073 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,200 dive ? When can congress expect to see 1074 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,978 it ? Especially those of us who 1075 00:42:32,978 --> 00:42:35,580 represent installations that are in the 1076 00:42:35,580 --> 00:42:37,636 top five . So we'd love to hear from 1077 00:42:37,636 --> 00:42:40,350 you on those details . Great . Thank 1078 00:42:40,350 --> 00:42:42,517 you very much . I do want to point out 1079 00:42:42,517 --> 00:42:45,800 that our legislation does include very 1080 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,740 high overlap areas like domestic 1081 00:42:47,740 --> 00:42:50,020 violence , which is a huge one , um , 1082 00:42:50,030 --> 00:42:53,630 harassment , etcetera . So I just don't 1083 00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:55,620 want , uh , to be can thought that 1084 00:42:55,620 --> 00:42:57,787 we've scoped it so narrowly that those 1085 00:42:57,787 --> 00:42:59,842 continuum of harm issues are outside 1086 00:42:59,842 --> 00:43:02,530 our scope on the on site installation 1087 00:43:02,530 --> 00:43:04,410 process . Um , as I said , it's 1088 00:43:04,410 --> 00:43:07,980 underway . Um , now , uh , we would be 1089 00:43:07,980 --> 00:43:09,980 happy to come back even in the fall 1090 00:43:09,980 --> 00:43:12,258 time frame to give you a sense of what , 1091 00:43:12,258 --> 00:43:14,258 because those teams will be through 1092 00:43:14,258 --> 00:43:17,830 their initial uh first uh drive through 1093 00:43:17,830 --> 00:43:20,840 that first set by end of summer roughly . 1094 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,062 So we would be able to come back in the 1095 00:43:23,062 --> 00:43:25,490 fall and provide information on that 1096 00:43:25,490 --> 00:43:28,220 process . What was used for evaluation , 1097 00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:31,080 um and what the findings were . Um I 1098 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,191 will say the way I think you asked me 1099 00:43:33,191 --> 00:43:35,358 the way we will use it going forward . 1100 00:43:35,358 --> 00:43:37,524 And the idea here is of course that we 1101 00:43:37,524 --> 00:43:39,670 can target . If we understand what's 1102 00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:41,892 working well at certain installations , 1103 00:43:41,892 --> 00:43:44,003 we can learn things where we have the 1104 00:43:44,003 --> 00:43:46,170 installations where there is a problem 1105 00:43:46,170 --> 00:43:47,892 or maybe there's a unit on the 1106 00:43:47,892 --> 00:43:50,059 installation where there's a problem . 1107 00:43:50,059 --> 00:43:52,059 Um we can start to target resources 1108 00:43:52,059 --> 00:43:54,226 there . When you look across the whole 1109 00:43:54,226 --> 00:43:56,170 of what we're trying to do here to 1110 00:43:56,170 --> 00:43:55,870 counter sexual assault and sexual 1111 00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:58,520 harassment and related crimes , it will 1112 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,470 be very resource and leadership 1113 00:44:00,470 --> 00:44:02,192 intensive . So the more we can 1114 00:44:02,192 --> 00:44:04,580 understand where to target those 1115 00:44:04,590 --> 00:44:06,970 resources that will really help us and 1116 00:44:06,970 --> 00:44:09,280 exactly how to do it . So that's around 1117 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,940 the type of prevention resources that 1118 00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:13,884 are there . What's in the civilian 1119 00:44:13,884 --> 00:44:16,218 sector , maybe outside off installation ? 1120 00:44:16,218 --> 00:44:18,060 What are those capacities and 1121 00:44:18,060 --> 00:44:20,360 capabilities that we could uh liaise 1122 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,950 with better leverage , um , you know , 1123 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,016 anything on command climate in those 1124 00:44:25,016 --> 00:44:27,127 areas ? Those are the types of things 1125 00:44:27,127 --> 00:44:29,910 we're looking for . And speaking to the 1126 00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:32,021 command climate , obviously there are 1127 00:44:32,021 --> 00:44:34,280 changes in command uh , that have 1128 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,130 happened . Will the deeper dive take a 1129 00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:39,930 look at a predecessor , for example , 1130 00:44:39,930 --> 00:44:42,152 And what happened under a predecessor ? 1131 00:44:42,152 --> 00:44:44,374 What changes have been made currently ? 1132 00:44:44,374 --> 00:44:47,110 Or is it just a deeper dive into what's 1133 00:44:47,110 --> 00:44:50,720 happening there currently ? It will be 1134 00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:54,300 able to assess uh all the dynamics , 1135 00:44:54,300 --> 00:44:56,522 including things that may have happened 1136 00:44:56,522 --> 00:44:58,578 in the past , that shape the current 1137 00:44:58,578 --> 00:45:00,689 environment . So that would certainly 1138 00:45:00,689 --> 00:45:02,578 be something that would take into 1139 00:45:02,578 --> 00:45:04,689 account . Okay . And and it would the 1140 00:45:04,689 --> 00:45:08,000 the deeper dive would include a broad 1141 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,450 look at all of the the continuum of 1142 00:45:11,450 --> 00:45:13,783 harm . As you just , it's exactly right . 1143 00:45:13,783 --> 00:45:16,006 Exactly . Right . All right , thank you 1144 00:45:16,006 --> 00:45:18,228 so much . I look forward to the results 1145 00:45:18,228 --> 00:45:20,450 and and the information that comes from 1146 00:45:20,450 --> 00:45:22,450 that deeper dive , especially as it 1147 00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:24,506 pertains to Fort Bliss Madam Chair . 1148 00:45:24,506 --> 00:45:26,672 You're back . General Lady yields back 1149 00:45:26,672 --> 00:45:28,783 dr hicks . I won't ask you to comment 1150 00:45:28,783 --> 00:45:30,950 on this , but I would just like you to 1151 00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:34,410 file this away when um when the when 1152 00:45:34,410 --> 00:45:37,470 Vanessa Guillen's um murder took place 1153 00:45:37,470 --> 00:45:39,760 at Fort Hood . Inspector General went 1154 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,920 down within a short period of time , 1155 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,087 came back and reported that everything 1156 00:45:44,087 --> 00:45:47,990 was just fine . Uh And it was then um 1157 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,500 Secretary um uh Ryan 1158 00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:53,600 who stood up this independent review 1159 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,822 committee who then went down and in the 1160 00:45:55,822 --> 00:45:57,989 course of a very few months and really 1161 00:45:57,989 --> 00:46:00,310 not a high expensive money was able to 1162 00:46:00,310 --> 00:46:02,540 come back with a really robust and 1163 00:46:02,540 --> 00:46:04,900 comprehensive review . I am just 1164 00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:08,570 concerned that the independence that we 1165 00:46:08,570 --> 00:46:12,390 saw in the Fort Hood review um maybe 1166 00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:14,279 lost by having persons within the 1167 00:46:14,279 --> 00:46:17,460 military um doing this um special 1168 00:46:17,460 --> 00:46:20,740 review of these various installations . 1169 00:46:20,740 --> 00:46:23,400 So um we can talk further about that 1170 00:46:23,410 --> 00:46:26,910 later . Um We'll now hear from Mr 1171 00:46:26,910 --> 00:46:29,010 Fallon who is recognized for five 1172 00:46:29,010 --> 00:46:31,910 minutes . Thank you madam Chair . Thank 1173 00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:35,280 you . Dr hicks . So just full 1174 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,169 disclosure having been a military 1175 00:46:37,169 --> 00:46:41,030 member , not an admiral , but I I 1176 00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:43,490 initially was hesitant to remove 1177 00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:46,020 prosecuted prosecutorial authority from 1178 00:46:46,020 --> 00:46:48,460 the chain of command . Um But as 1179 00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:51,930 Admiral and Doctor and 1180 00:46:51,930 --> 00:46:55,360 congressman , uh Ronnie Jackson was 1181 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,527 saying , it's not what we're doing now 1182 00:46:57,527 --> 00:47:00,350 is not working . And um , so I have a 1183 00:47:00,350 --> 00:47:02,406 few questions the Independent Review 1184 00:47:02,406 --> 00:47:04,517 Commission Stood up for about , is it 1185 00:47:04,517 --> 00:47:06,794 roughly four months , is that accurate ? 1186 00:47:06,980 --> 00:47:10,600 90 days ? Okay . So three months and uh 1187 00:47:10,610 --> 00:47:13,160 to assess the sexual assault issue in 1188 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,230 the military and their findings came 1189 00:47:15,230 --> 00:47:18,080 back and they wanted to remove sexual 1190 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,413 assault cases from the chain of command , 1191 00:47:20,413 --> 00:47:22,636 but also and correct me if I'm mistaken 1192 00:47:22,636 --> 00:47:24,636 here , But also domestic violence , 1193 00:47:24,636 --> 00:47:26,560 distribution of intimate images 1194 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,727 stalking child abuse and retaliation . 1195 00:47:28,727 --> 00:47:30,504 Is that accurate ? Yes , that's 1196 00:47:30,504 --> 00:47:32,282 accurate . Do you know why they 1197 00:47:32,282 --> 00:47:34,449 included those other issues ? We do as 1198 00:47:34,449 --> 00:47:36,680 well , congressman . They are related 1199 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,902 crimes . It's considered a continuum of 1200 00:47:38,902 --> 00:47:41,124 harm . And there's an ability in the in 1201 00:47:41,124 --> 00:47:43,180 the science and in the in the social 1202 00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:45,124 science to be able to see how they 1203 00:47:45,124 --> 00:47:47,520 connect and lead up to actual sexual 1204 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,800 assault . And so after the 90 days you 1205 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,022 recommended that . But recommended that 1206 00:47:53,022 --> 00:47:55,310 all other felonies stay in the chain of 1207 00:47:55,310 --> 00:47:58,510 command . We did not make any 1208 00:47:58,510 --> 00:48:01,080 recommendations other than inside 1209 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,247 sexual assault and sexual harassment . 1210 00:48:03,247 --> 00:48:05,413 So you didn't touch the other . We did 1211 00:48:05,413 --> 00:48:07,524 not touch that . That would be status 1212 00:48:07,524 --> 00:48:07,190 quo . That would remain in the chain of 1213 00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:08,634 command , correct if your 1214 00:48:08,634 --> 00:48:11,400 recommendations were correct . So um 1215 00:48:11,410 --> 00:48:14,200 has do you know are you aware that um 1216 00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:17,830 there was no studies done that we're no 1217 00:48:17,830 --> 00:48:20,840 no no serious discussions about the 1218 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,951 impact of moving all felonies because 1219 00:48:22,951 --> 00:48:25,062 there are some folks in Congress that 1220 00:48:25,062 --> 00:48:27,118 want to remove all felonies from the 1221 00:48:27,118 --> 00:48:29,460 chain of command . Yeah . I'm aware of 1222 00:48:29,470 --> 00:48:32,390 of one study that is the result of an N . 1223 00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:35,020 D . A . Directions um which I have 1224 00:48:35,020 --> 00:48:37,076 somewhere here but I'm only aware of 1225 00:48:37,076 --> 00:48:39,090 one that the department has or 1226 00:48:39,090 --> 00:48:41,090 department related bodies have been 1227 00:48:41,090 --> 00:48:43,080 asked to undertake that particular 1228 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,640 study . Did did not recommend moving 1229 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,862 forward . But that's the only study I'm 1230 00:48:47,862 --> 00:48:50,140 aware of because if I recall correctly , 1231 00:48:50,140 --> 00:48:52,740 Secretary Austin was also wanted a 1232 00:48:52,740 --> 00:48:54,740 narrow scope as far as removing the 1233 00:48:54,740 --> 00:48:56,796 felonies from the chain of command . 1234 00:48:56,796 --> 00:48:59,160 That's correct . And uh so if there if 1235 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:00,993 there was if we're gonna vote on 1236 00:49:00,993 --> 00:49:03,104 something like that like removing all 1237 00:49:03,104 --> 00:49:05,550 felonies um how long would that kind of 1238 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,616 how long would that take to properly 1239 00:49:07,616 --> 00:49:09,727 study the impact that they could have 1240 00:49:09,727 --> 00:49:11,838 on the military ? I couldn't give you 1241 00:49:11,838 --> 00:49:14,004 an exact timeline . But I think if the 1242 00:49:14,004 --> 00:49:16,170 Congress directed further study from 1243 00:49:16,170 --> 00:49:18,281 the department you probably want some 1244 00:49:18,281 --> 00:49:20,392 outside experts to study it as well . 1245 00:49:20,392 --> 00:49:22,226 But from the department we would 1246 00:49:22,226 --> 00:49:24,337 undertake to do that as quickly as as 1247 00:49:24,337 --> 00:49:26,281 Congress asked us to do it . But I 1248 00:49:26,281 --> 00:49:28,448 would think we would probably need six 1249 00:49:28,448 --> 00:49:30,448 months . Yeah , because I assume to 1250 00:49:30,448 --> 00:49:32,690 recall that some of the on off offline 1251 00:49:32,690 --> 00:49:34,690 conversations that was six months a 1252 00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:36,634 year or something like that . So I 1253 00:49:36,634 --> 00:49:38,801 think any kind of vote on something of 1254 00:49:38,801 --> 00:49:40,857 that magnitude would be um premature 1255 00:49:40,857 --> 00:49:42,968 until you all could come back with us 1256 00:49:42,968 --> 00:49:45,300 and with that information to give us 1257 00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:48,570 the best ability to make the correct 1258 00:49:48,570 --> 00:49:50,681 decisions moving forward . So , thank 1259 00:49:50,681 --> 00:49:52,848 you very much and Madam Chair , you're 1260 00:49:52,848 --> 00:49:55,950 back Gentlemen , Leo yields back . Um 1261 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,127 the gentlewoman from Pennsylvania Miss 1262 00:49:58,127 --> 00:50:00,460 Hoolahan is recognized for five minutes . 1263 00:50:01,060 --> 00:50:03,282 Thank you Madam Chair , just confirming 1264 00:50:03,282 --> 00:50:06,190 that you can hear me . Yes , we can 1265 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,100 very , very loud actually . Okay then 1266 00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:12,156 I'll try and lower it a little bit . 1267 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,790 Mhm . My first question has to do the 1268 00:50:15,790 --> 00:50:19,210 follow up from representative escobar , 1269 00:50:19,220 --> 00:50:21,387 you talked a little bit about the time 1270 00:50:21,387 --> 00:50:23,331 frame for implementation after you 1271 00:50:23,331 --> 00:50:25,680 develop your road map . But I have a 1272 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,847 little bit of a question regarding the 1273 00:50:27,847 --> 00:50:30,013 fact that as we all know , there are a 1274 00:50:30,013 --> 00:50:32,124 lot of positions in the D . O . D and 1275 00:50:32,124 --> 00:50:31,630 in the office of the Secretary of 1276 00:50:31,630 --> 00:50:33,780 Defense that are political appointees 1277 00:50:33,780 --> 00:50:36,490 positions . So do you are you planning 1278 00:50:36,490 --> 00:50:38,434 on having also a recommendation or 1279 00:50:38,434 --> 00:50:39,990 process for a continuity of 1280 00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:42,230 implementation for the D . O . D . 1281 00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:44,008 Beyond potentially this current 1282 00:50:44,008 --> 00:50:45,897 administration where that to be a 1283 00:50:45,897 --> 00:50:49,830 reality ? Yes , congresswoman 1284 00:50:50,050 --> 00:50:52,420 in particular with the prevention 1285 00:50:52,420 --> 00:50:54,531 workforce , which is where I think we 1286 00:50:54,531 --> 00:50:56,753 will end up finding , we're still doing 1287 00:50:56,753 --> 00:50:58,809 the analysis now , but where we will 1288 00:50:58,809 --> 00:51:00,976 end up finding there and in the victim 1289 00:51:00,976 --> 00:51:04,280 care the most need for 1290 00:51:04,290 --> 00:51:07,070 dedicated personnel . We I would 1291 00:51:07,070 --> 00:51:10,920 anticipate that uh change from today to 1292 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,810 that future will look like career 1293 00:51:13,810 --> 00:51:16,690 civilian , a lot more career civilian 1294 00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:20,370 framing um , than either a transitory 1295 00:51:20,380 --> 00:51:22,490 uh , political appointee or even 1296 00:51:22,490 --> 00:51:25,480 necessarily more use of military 1297 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,810 personnel . So that's where I think 1298 00:51:27,810 --> 00:51:30,460 you'd find the enduring connection with 1299 00:51:30,460 --> 00:51:33,800 the recommendations . Thanks . And I 1300 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,911 would encourage that . We think about 1301 00:51:35,911 --> 00:51:37,856 that , my experience having been a 1302 00:51:37,856 --> 00:51:39,967 member of the service myself and also 1303 00:51:39,967 --> 00:51:42,189 growing up in the military , that there 1304 00:51:42,189 --> 00:51:44,580 is quite a lot of rotation and turn and 1305 00:51:44,580 --> 00:51:46,860 burn not just within the administration 1306 00:51:46,860 --> 00:51:48,804 appointed positions , but in other 1307 00:51:48,804 --> 00:51:51,027 positions as well . So making sure that 1308 00:51:51,027 --> 00:51:53,082 we think about that is important for 1309 00:51:53,082 --> 00:51:55,249 you as well . On my other question has 1310 00:51:55,249 --> 00:51:57,249 to do with the most recent question 1311 00:51:57,249 --> 00:51:59,249 which preceded me , which had to do 1312 00:51:59,249 --> 00:52:01,300 with a timeline where we look into 1313 00:52:01,310 --> 00:52:03,500 bringing everything under the umbrella 1314 00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:05,710 of this piece of legislation of this 1315 00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:07,942 vote . And you mentioned that something 1316 00:52:07,942 --> 00:52:09,831 six months to a year might be the 1317 00:52:09,831 --> 00:52:12,053 timeline . Can you comment on why if it 1318 00:52:12,053 --> 00:52:14,220 could be in fact done in six months to 1319 00:52:14,220 --> 00:52:16,053 a year ? Uh , the fact that this 1320 00:52:16,053 --> 00:52:18,320 particular sexual assault and other 1321 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,376 ancillary and related to crimes took 1322 00:52:20,376 --> 00:52:22,542 the better part of a decade to be able 1323 00:52:22,542 --> 00:52:25,190 to understand the data around and why 1324 00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:27,300 should this be any different ? Thank 1325 00:52:27,300 --> 00:52:29,244 you so much for that . I think the 1326 00:52:29,244 --> 00:52:31,560 major difference , um , I have to say 1327 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,504 is leadership and direction . As I 1328 00:52:33,504 --> 00:52:35,870 tried to make clear , it really did 1329 00:52:35,870 --> 00:52:38,370 take uh , leadership from Congress in a 1330 00:52:38,370 --> 00:52:40,550 bipartisan way , quite frankly . Um , 1331 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,070 alongside of course , the president , 1332 00:52:43,070 --> 00:52:45,070 direction from the President of the 1333 00:52:45,070 --> 00:52:47,014 United States and the Secretary of 1334 00:52:47,014 --> 00:52:48,959 Defense . Um , that's a tremendous 1335 00:52:48,959 --> 00:52:51,610 amount of , um , you know , positive 1336 00:52:51,620 --> 00:52:54,430 momentum to the system and I think you 1337 00:52:54,430 --> 00:52:56,541 would want to see something like that 1338 00:52:56,541 --> 00:52:58,580 in order to move as quickly and as 1339 00:52:58,580 --> 00:53:02,020 decisively . Um , we won't be done when 1340 00:53:02,020 --> 00:53:04,280 legislation is done in this case . We 1341 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,680 have a lot of work to do to make sure 1342 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,150 that leadership at every level of the 1343 00:53:09,150 --> 00:53:11,261 department is actually moving forward 1344 00:53:11,261 --> 00:53:13,580 and putting in the time and resources 1345 00:53:13,590 --> 00:53:17,440 investing um in the future of this 1346 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,060 prevention and climate and culture and 1347 00:53:20,060 --> 00:53:21,800 accountability and victim care 1348 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,360 framework . We would expect the same 1349 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,730 thing would have to happen I think um 1350 00:53:26,740 --> 00:53:29,030 if we wanted to move on a fast timeline 1351 00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:31,050 elsewhere , um , we would need that 1352 00:53:31,050 --> 00:53:33,250 same leadership . I'll say one thing I 1353 00:53:33,260 --> 00:53:35,210 said before , but I feel I feel it 1354 00:53:35,220 --> 00:53:38,220 bears repeating . The problem has to be 1355 00:53:38,220 --> 00:53:40,710 well defined as well . And here in 1356 00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:42,877 sexual assault and sexual harassment . 1357 00:53:42,877 --> 00:53:44,821 The problem is very well defined . 1358 00:53:44,821 --> 00:53:47,043 We've spent many years , as you pointed 1359 00:53:47,043 --> 00:53:51,040 out with many studies on it and we 1360 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,320 have a lot of data so that helps jump 1361 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,320 start everything and the better and 1362 00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,390 more more clearly we can define the 1363 00:53:58,390 --> 00:54:00,446 problem we're solving . I think that 1364 00:54:00,446 --> 00:54:02,880 will help propel um give us some added 1365 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,500 momentum to move quickly . This is my 1366 00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:07,722 final question relates to that . And if 1367 00:54:07,722 --> 00:54:09,722 you could share aside from the fact 1368 00:54:09,722 --> 00:54:11,833 that you feel as though you you might 1369 00:54:11,833 --> 00:54:14,056 need better problems that definition or 1370 00:54:14,056 --> 00:54:16,056 more time . Can you share any other 1371 00:54:16,056 --> 00:54:18,167 with the panel , any other opposition 1372 00:54:18,167 --> 00:54:20,390 that the D . O . D . Has to the Vanessa 1373 00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:22,446 G . And Military Justice Improvement 1374 00:54:22,446 --> 00:54:24,557 and increasing Prevention Act that we 1375 00:54:24,557 --> 00:54:26,334 could appreciate and understand 1376 00:54:26,940 --> 00:54:28,770 Congresswoman , I can't speak 1377 00:54:28,780 --> 00:54:30,480 specifically to that piece of 1378 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,840 legislation . If the question is around 1379 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,590 the scope the scope of the set 1380 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,250 of offenses that would move outside the 1381 00:54:39,260 --> 00:54:42,500 chain of command , which is which is at 1382 00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:44,920 once a very large issue and at the same 1383 00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,810 time not really related to the sexual 1384 00:54:47,810 --> 00:54:50,010 assault sexual harassment scope that 1385 00:54:50,010 --> 00:54:52,270 we're trying to push . I think the 1386 00:54:52,270 --> 00:54:54,270 biggest challenge we face is making 1387 00:54:54,270 --> 00:54:57,010 sure we can effectuate positive change 1388 00:54:57,010 --> 00:54:59,232 on sexual assault and sexual harassment 1389 00:54:59,232 --> 00:55:01,880 in a timely manner that builds faith 1390 00:55:01,890 --> 00:55:05,010 back into the system we have when when 1391 00:55:05,010 --> 00:55:07,990 we've made this scoping recommendation , 1392 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,290 we are thinking ahead to how we 1393 00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:13,490 effectively execute on this in order to 1394 00:55:13,490 --> 00:55:17,120 show results and to build trust . So we 1395 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,410 do have a concern that at once we are 1396 00:55:20,420 --> 00:55:22,590 trying to accomplish this important 1397 00:55:22,590 --> 00:55:24,479 goal on sexual assault and sexual 1398 00:55:24,479 --> 00:55:26,534 harassment . We would be swamping it 1399 00:55:26,534 --> 00:55:28,590 and diffusing our efforts with other 1400 00:55:28,590 --> 00:55:31,090 goals . Thank you . I'm afraid 1401 00:55:33,830 --> 00:55:36,052 The gentlewoman from Oklahoma Miss Bias 1402 00:55:36,052 --> 00:55:38,350 is recognized for five minutes . Well , 1403 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,360 first , thank you madam Sheriff for 1404 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,582 holding this very important hearing And 1405 00:55:42,582 --> 00:55:44,693 uh Deputy Secretary Hicks , thank you 1406 00:55:44,693 --> 00:55:46,582 for being here today . One of the 1407 00:55:46,582 --> 00:55:48,920 findings in the I . R . C . S . Report 1408 00:55:48,930 --> 00:55:50,986 was that many female service members 1409 00:55:50,986 --> 00:55:53,097 report being treated differently than 1410 00:55:53,097 --> 00:55:55,208 their male counterparts and that some 1411 00:55:55,208 --> 00:55:57,263 female service members described the 1412 00:55:57,263 --> 00:55:59,319 subject being the subject of regular 1413 00:55:59,319 --> 00:56:01,840 sexist comments . The report noted that 1414 00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,500 less than 18% of the total workforce is 1415 00:56:04,500 --> 00:56:08,200 female . The question I have for you is 1416 00:56:08,210 --> 00:56:10,730 are we doing enough to address the 1417 00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:13,570 retention and recruitment of women into 1418 00:56:13,570 --> 00:56:15,792 the service And if not how are we going 1419 00:56:15,792 --> 00:56:17,626 to address that moving forward , 1420 00:56:20,530 --> 00:56:23,480 congresswoman , we have a we are not 1421 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,890 doing enough to address retention um 1422 00:56:25,900 --> 00:56:28,750 recruitment and retention of women in 1423 00:56:28,750 --> 00:56:30,970 the workforce . We know that women are 1424 00:56:30,970 --> 00:56:32,914 increasing percent of the nation's 1425 00:56:32,914 --> 00:56:36,100 overall workforce . We know that as we 1426 00:56:36,100 --> 00:56:39,330 look ahead to the next 5 , 10 , 15 1427 00:56:39,330 --> 00:56:42,570 years in order to get the high quality 1428 00:56:42,580 --> 00:56:45,540 um force both civilian and military we 1429 00:56:45,540 --> 00:56:48,540 rely upon . We have to be able to tap 1430 00:56:48,550 --> 00:56:50,860 really all segments of american society 1431 00:56:50,860 --> 00:56:53,110 effectively . To do that , we have 1432 00:56:53,110 --> 00:56:54,888 underway a diversity equity and 1433 00:56:54,888 --> 00:56:57,260 inclusion set of efforts that are run 1434 00:56:57,260 --> 00:56:59,910 through bringing in all the service , 1435 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,620 um uniform military and a civilian 1436 00:57:02,620 --> 00:57:04,680 leadership , the deputies workforce 1437 00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,690 council that I chair alongside the 1438 00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:09,644 joint staff counterpart , the vice 1439 00:57:09,644 --> 00:57:11,867 chairman . And that is one of the areas 1440 00:57:11,867 --> 00:57:13,978 we're looking very closely at . We're 1441 00:57:13,978 --> 00:57:16,240 looking at everything from um how folks 1442 00:57:16,250 --> 00:57:18,690 uh what our incentive structures are , 1443 00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:21,960 how we move people through the system 1444 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,016 if you will in terms of promotions , 1445 00:57:24,016 --> 00:57:26,730 how we think about different um the 1446 00:57:26,730 --> 00:57:28,730 different pathways to promotion but 1447 00:57:28,730 --> 00:57:31,030 also the unit types that are most 1448 00:57:31,030 --> 00:57:33,320 likely to be promoted and making sure 1449 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,360 we can get more women um and other 1450 00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,360 representatives of a diverse nation 1451 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,410 into those um portions of the workforce . 1452 00:57:41,410 --> 00:57:43,760 So that's work that is ongoing . It 1453 00:57:43,770 --> 00:57:45,770 builds on work that was done in the 1454 00:57:45,770 --> 00:57:47,881 last administration on the same basic 1455 00:57:47,881 --> 00:57:51,030 pathway . Um , so we try to emphasize 1456 00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:53,141 all the time that it is a nonpartisan 1457 00:57:53,141 --> 00:57:55,550 approach . It is simply smart business 1458 00:57:55,730 --> 00:57:57,952 to make sure you can get that workforce 1459 00:57:57,952 --> 00:58:00,390 you need for the future . Follow up . 1460 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,030 How do you ensure though that women 1461 00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:05,670 that are joining our military feel 1462 00:58:05,670 --> 00:58:08,170 valued uh , and respected , included , 1463 00:58:08,170 --> 00:58:10,281 given the circumstances that surround 1464 00:58:10,281 --> 00:58:12,448 sexual harassment and sexual assault ? 1465 00:58:12,448 --> 00:58:14,870 I think it's a detriment to many women , 1466 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,260 uh , for consideration of the military 1467 00:58:17,260 --> 00:58:19,204 because they do not feel that this 1468 00:58:19,204 --> 00:58:21,371 issue has been addressed effectively . 1469 00:58:21,620 --> 00:58:24,730 Yes , so I think this gets back to what 1470 00:58:24,730 --> 00:58:26,674 is the kind of ethos , What's that 1471 00:58:26,674 --> 00:58:28,590 warrior warrior ethos that were 1472 00:58:28,590 --> 00:58:30,950 instilling in the military ? And we 1473 00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:34,300 need to a lot of the workaround command 1474 00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:36,244 climate that we're focused on with 1475 00:58:36,244 --> 00:58:39,600 regard to sexual violence bears out in 1476 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:41,711 terms of how you look holistically at 1477 00:58:41,711 --> 00:58:43,989 the force , including women in service . 1478 00:58:43,989 --> 00:58:46,670 And that is to say that um you know , 1479 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:48,500 leadership and command is about 1480 00:58:48,500 --> 00:58:51,210 creating cohesion in your unit . It is 1481 00:58:51,210 --> 00:58:53,760 about valuing and respecting the 1482 00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,070 membership of those units . It is not 1483 00:58:57,070 --> 00:58:59,540 about denigrating any particular type 1484 00:58:59,550 --> 00:59:02,660 of person , such as women in your unit . 1485 00:59:02,670 --> 00:59:04,726 That's something that comment on the 1486 00:59:04,726 --> 00:59:06,892 Marine Corps has spoken very , I think 1487 00:59:06,892 --> 00:59:08,559 eloquently on on this idea of 1488 00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:10,781 subcultures of denigration . And that's 1489 00:59:10,781 --> 00:59:12,781 the type of we need to counter that 1490 00:59:12,781 --> 00:59:14,810 with command climate , um focused 1491 00:59:14,810 --> 00:59:16,970 approaches that make clear that to 1492 00:59:16,970 --> 00:59:19,081 succeed in our military , you have to 1493 00:59:19,081 --> 00:59:21,303 actually build up your force . Not tear 1494 00:59:21,303 --> 00:59:24,000 it down . Thank you . Thank you . Thank 1495 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,167 you for your testimony today , madam . 1496 00:59:26,167 --> 00:59:28,333 Cherry yield back , gentlewoman yields 1497 00:59:28,333 --> 00:59:30,667 back . Um The gentleman from texas mr V . 1498 00:59:30,667 --> 00:59:32,722 C . Is recognized for five minutes . 1499 00:59:32,722 --> 00:59:35,800 Thank you , madam Chair . I want to 1500 00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,620 really uh I think it's very important 1501 00:59:38,620 --> 00:59:40,509 that we're doing these panels and 1502 00:59:40,509 --> 00:59:42,564 talking about this today . Obviously 1503 00:59:42,564 --> 00:59:44,731 this is a topic that I think that most 1504 00:59:44,731 --> 00:59:47,430 of the country is really um thinks is 1505 00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:49,486 important that we finally get to the 1506 00:59:49,486 --> 00:59:51,430 bottom of addressing this . It was 1507 00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:53,597 amazing . We took our coattail to Fort 1508 00:59:53,597 --> 00:59:55,810 Hood and listen to so many female 1509 00:59:55,810 --> 00:59:58,810 soldiers and other soldiers talk about 1510 00:59:58,820 --> 01:00:01,090 just how important it was for their 1511 01:00:01,090 --> 01:00:03,312 voices to finally , you know , start to 1512 01:00:03,312 --> 01:00:05,870 be heard on these issues and how it was 1513 01:00:05,870 --> 01:00:07,870 really critical for them to finally 1514 01:00:07,870 --> 01:00:10,037 start to uh to see change . And that's 1515 01:00:10,037 --> 01:00:12,037 one of the reasons why I'm I'm very 1516 01:00:12,037 --> 01:00:13,926 supportive of the vanessa again , 1517 01:00:13,926 --> 01:00:15,759 military justice improvement and 1518 01:00:15,759 --> 01:00:17,870 increasing Prevention Act . Um I know 1519 01:00:17,870 --> 01:00:20,092 that there have been some concerns that 1520 01:00:20,092 --> 01:00:22,690 some people have talked and express to 1521 01:00:22,690 --> 01:00:24,912 you about separating the cases . And so 1522 01:00:24,912 --> 01:00:27,830 I wanted to specifically ask you about 1523 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,390 that . Uh , what what are your thoughts 1524 01:00:31,390 --> 01:00:33,380 on how to make sure that we don't 1525 01:00:33,380 --> 01:00:36,800 stigmatize sexual assault further by uh , 1526 01:00:36,810 --> 01:00:40,530 pulling it into a separate category uh , 1527 01:00:40,540 --> 01:00:41,980 based on the I . R . C . 1528 01:00:41,980 --> 01:00:44,770 Recommendations . Thank you , 1529 01:00:44,770 --> 01:00:47,490 congressman . And I've also been down 1530 01:00:47,490 --> 01:00:49,601 to Fort Hood and your comments really 1531 01:00:49,601 --> 01:00:52,740 resonate with me . Um , okay , 1532 01:00:53,310 --> 01:00:56,190 the approach that we are taking is 1533 01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,311 similar to the best in class approach 1534 01:00:58,311 --> 01:01:00,367 taken in the civilian sector , where 1535 01:01:00,367 --> 01:01:03,930 there are special prosecutors who are , 1536 01:01:03,940 --> 01:01:06,330 you know , they they specialize in 1537 01:01:06,340 --> 01:01:08,396 sexual misconduct , sexual assault , 1538 01:01:08,396 --> 01:01:10,507 sexual harassment , sexual misconduct 1539 01:01:10,507 --> 01:01:12,673 because that is the way to deliver the 1540 01:01:12,673 --> 01:01:15,360 best quality outcome . Um , that's the 1541 01:01:15,370 --> 01:01:18,510 model that we followed . So it's just 1542 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,030 that , you know , that is a different 1543 01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:23,377 way of looking at the problem , then , 1544 01:01:23,377 --> 01:01:26,880 a holistic rewrite of the um , 1545 01:01:26,890 --> 01:01:29,480 approach to military justice for for 1546 01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,660 felonies . Um I think that approach 1547 01:01:32,670 --> 01:01:35,350 helps us best on countering sexual 1548 01:01:35,350 --> 01:01:37,640 assault , sexual harassment and related 1549 01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,340 crimes quickly and effectively . And we 1550 01:01:41,340 --> 01:01:43,396 will deliver real outcomes that grow 1551 01:01:43,396 --> 01:01:46,030 trust um in that military justice 1552 01:01:46,030 --> 01:01:48,230 system overall at the same time that 1553 01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:50,452 we're working on these other elements , 1554 01:01:50,452 --> 01:01:52,508 these other lines of effort that are 1555 01:01:52,508 --> 01:01:54,770 relevant to that problem . Uh So in 1556 01:01:54,770 --> 01:01:57,530 addition to tackling the the issue of 1557 01:01:57,530 --> 01:01:59,752 sexual assault in the military , I know 1558 01:01:59,752 --> 01:02:01,808 that another area that we heard from 1559 01:02:01,808 --> 01:02:03,863 service members to was around issues 1560 01:02:03,863 --> 01:02:06,140 around race and discrimination . Uh 1561 01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:08,317 black and hispanic service members are 1562 01:02:08,317 --> 01:02:10,261 far are far more likely than white 1563 01:02:10,261 --> 01:02:12,483 members that he tried uh in general and 1564 01:02:12,483 --> 01:02:14,706 special court martials and all military 1565 01:02:14,706 --> 01:02:18,240 services uh even when controlling for 1566 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,462 attributes such as rank and education . 1567 01:02:20,462 --> 01:02:23,860 Uh this is across every uh military 1568 01:02:23,860 --> 01:02:27,860 service I wanted to ask you uh taking 1569 01:02:27,860 --> 01:02:30,193 in the recommendations from this report . 1570 01:02:30,193 --> 01:02:31,990 Can D . O . D . Utilize these 1571 01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:34,820 recommendations to help in these areas ? 1572 01:02:34,820 --> 01:02:37,400 And uh could this help with the 1573 01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,210 potential disparity within race in the 1574 01:02:40,210 --> 01:02:42,930 military ? Could this help with the 1575 01:02:42,930 --> 01:02:45,820 potential disparity with within race in 1576 01:02:45,820 --> 01:02:47,931 the military justice system ? And are 1577 01:02:47,931 --> 01:02:50,780 there other areas we where we can use 1578 01:02:50,780 --> 01:02:53,510 these recommendations ? My answer is I 1579 01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:57,380 don't know . I think the problem set is 1580 01:02:57,380 --> 01:02:59,602 an important one that you're citing the 1581 01:02:59,602 --> 01:03:02,330 G . A . O . Study that speaks very uh 1582 01:03:02,340 --> 01:03:04,396 well first of all their one of their 1583 01:03:04,396 --> 01:03:06,340 first finding is is there the data 1584 01:03:06,340 --> 01:03:08,396 isn't good ? So the department has a 1585 01:03:08,396 --> 01:03:10,670 challenge to get better data that links 1586 01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:14,100 race and outcomes in in 1587 01:03:14,110 --> 01:03:17,370 um in the military justice system . Um 1588 01:03:17,380 --> 01:03:19,460 But even getting beyond the data 1589 01:03:19,460 --> 01:03:21,682 question in taking the G . A . O . Data 1590 01:03:21,682 --> 01:03:25,070 um where we have it , we have what 1591 01:03:25,070 --> 01:03:27,292 Diego points to is they don't , there's 1592 01:03:27,292 --> 01:03:29,470 no assessment yet on why that's the 1593 01:03:29,470 --> 01:03:32,050 outcome . What they point to is that 1594 01:03:32,050 --> 01:03:35,680 there that there may be um points in 1595 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:37,736 the process that are leading to this 1596 01:03:37,736 --> 01:03:39,902 but they don't come to any findings on 1597 01:03:39,902 --> 01:03:41,902 what those are . So the answer is I 1598 01:03:41,902 --> 01:03:44,013 think we would have to do that work . 1599 01:03:44,013 --> 01:03:46,124 We should do that work . We owe it to 1600 01:03:46,124 --> 01:03:48,830 those Members in uniform . Especially 1601 01:03:48,830 --> 01:03:51,280 if there if there's in fact proven out 1602 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,336 through the data racial disparity in 1603 01:03:53,336 --> 01:03:55,447 the military justice system . I think 1604 01:03:55,447 --> 01:03:57,502 we need to take that problem centric 1605 01:03:57,502 --> 01:03:59,613 approach , get the experts involved , 1606 01:03:59,613 --> 01:04:01,724 look at the data , it doesn't need to 1607 01:04:01,724 --> 01:04:03,780 take 10 years . We need to get after 1608 01:04:03,780 --> 01:04:06,113 that problem with leadership at the top . 1609 01:04:06,113 --> 01:04:08,113 But whether it gets you to the same 1610 01:04:08,113 --> 01:04:10,960 kind of um solutions , I have no way to 1611 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,293 know that . I don't think it's an issue . 1612 01:04:13,293 --> 01:04:15,404 We just tack on to sexual assault and 1613 01:04:15,404 --> 01:04:17,404 sexual harassment . I think it's an 1614 01:04:17,404 --> 01:04:19,627 issue that deserves to be understood in 1615 01:04:19,627 --> 01:04:21,571 its fullness and I just don't have 1616 01:04:21,571 --> 01:04:23,627 those answers today . You know , I I 1617 01:04:23,627 --> 01:04:25,849 appreciate your candor on that uh madam 1618 01:04:25,849 --> 01:04:27,904 Chair . A yield back . The gentleman 1619 01:04:27,904 --> 01:04:30,127 yields back . Um the general woman from 1620 01:04:30,127 --> 01:04:32,293 California , Miss Jacobs is recognized 1621 01:04:32,293 --> 01:04:34,293 for five minutes . Well , thank you 1622 01:04:34,293 --> 01:04:36,460 madam Chair and good to see you Deputy 1623 01:04:36,460 --> 01:04:38,571 Secretary and most importantly , nice 1624 01:04:38,571 --> 01:04:40,904 to be able to call you Deputy Secretary . 1625 01:04:40,904 --> 01:04:42,960 Um I want to thank you and Secretary 1626 01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,182 Austin for all of the work you're doing 1627 01:04:45,182 --> 01:04:47,293 on this issue . Um I represent a huge 1628 01:04:47,293 --> 01:04:49,404 military community , talk to families 1629 01:04:49,404 --> 01:04:51,710 all the time who are concerned about 1630 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:55,530 their family members . Um and yet I 1631 01:04:55,530 --> 01:04:58,150 also have some concern that outside of 1632 01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,271 your office and the Secretary and the 1633 01:05:00,271 --> 01:05:02,271 Joint Chiefs of Staff , we've heard 1634 01:05:02,271 --> 01:05:04,327 from military leadership who kind of 1635 01:05:04,327 --> 01:05:06,549 make clear that they don't support this 1636 01:05:06,549 --> 01:05:09,360 kind of systemic reform . And so even 1637 01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,460 if we if we implement all of the 1638 01:05:11,460 --> 01:05:14,010 recommendations in some capacity , what 1639 01:05:14,010 --> 01:05:16,430 concrete steps will you take to ensure 1640 01:05:16,430 --> 01:05:18,486 compliance and widespread support of 1641 01:05:18,486 --> 01:05:20,597 the changes within the leadership and 1642 01:05:20,597 --> 01:05:22,597 then through the chain of command . 1643 01:05:24,090 --> 01:05:26,423 First of all , it's nice to see you too , 1644 01:05:26,423 --> 01:05:28,757 congresswoman and nice to call you that . 1645 01:05:28,757 --> 01:05:30,940 Um the we I have concerns , I have 1646 01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:33,117 significant concerns about our ability 1647 01:05:33,117 --> 01:05:35,770 to drive this kind of change . Um the 1648 01:05:35,770 --> 01:05:37,790 administration , you know , has a 1649 01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:41,010 potentially , you know , uh short 1650 01:05:41,010 --> 01:05:42,954 periods of time here to make these 1651 01:05:42,954 --> 01:05:45,066 changes happen is gonna take a lot of 1652 01:05:45,066 --> 01:05:47,288 effort . But what I think you can count 1653 01:05:47,288 --> 01:05:49,399 on is the President and the secretary 1654 01:05:49,399 --> 01:05:51,621 and I are here and we're here to put in 1655 01:05:51,621 --> 01:05:53,590 that effort and um we uh will work 1656 01:05:53,590 --> 01:05:55,479 closely with those throughout the 1657 01:05:55,479 --> 01:05:57,146 department . We have had good 1658 01:05:57,146 --> 01:05:59,840 conversations already um at the senior 1659 01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:01,729 most levels including the uniform 1660 01:06:01,729 --> 01:06:03,673 levels of the department . There's 1661 01:06:03,673 --> 01:06:05,896 certainly an understanding . Um This is 1662 01:06:05,896 --> 01:06:07,840 the direction we're going in . The 1663 01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:09,896 secretary has been very clear in his 1664 01:06:09,896 --> 01:06:11,840 direction to the department . Um a 1665 01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,062 couple of specific things I would point 1666 01:06:14,062 --> 01:06:16,118 to . We put in what I call this fail 1667 01:06:16,118 --> 01:06:18,340 safe approach which is that even though 1668 01:06:18,340 --> 01:06:20,118 the military departments in our 1669 01:06:20,118 --> 01:06:22,284 legislative proposal would be directed 1670 01:06:22,284 --> 01:06:24,173 to have these special prosecutors 1671 01:06:24,173 --> 01:06:25,951 working directly to the service 1672 01:06:25,951 --> 01:06:28,570 secretaries . Um We also have this fail 1673 01:06:28,570 --> 01:06:31,370 safe to pull that back to OSD , which 1674 01:06:31,370 --> 01:06:33,203 was the I . R . C . S . Original 1675 01:06:33,203 --> 01:06:35,314 recommendation should that be steamed 1676 01:06:35,314 --> 01:06:37,481 necessary by the secretary . So that's 1677 01:06:37,481 --> 01:06:39,703 a very clear um sort of damage . Please 1678 01:06:39,703 --> 01:06:41,926 if you will hanging over those military 1679 01:06:41,926 --> 01:06:43,981 departments to ensure they would far 1680 01:06:43,981 --> 01:06:46,360 prefer to have it moving at the 1681 01:06:46,370 --> 01:06:48,592 military department level . So we think 1682 01:06:48,592 --> 01:06:50,814 that's a good incentive for them to get 1683 01:06:50,814 --> 01:06:52,703 it right . Um And I think the big 1684 01:06:52,703 --> 01:06:54,759 concern we've seen in the department 1685 01:06:54,759 --> 01:06:56,759 since we've come to the secretary's 1686 01:06:56,759 --> 01:06:58,814 direction in early july is concerned 1687 01:06:58,814 --> 01:07:01,090 around resources um and implementation 1688 01:07:01,090 --> 01:07:03,257 timelines . And that's where I have my 1689 01:07:03,257 --> 01:07:05,479 homework to do by the end of summer for 1690 01:07:05,479 --> 01:07:07,534 the secretary to really lay out what 1691 01:07:07,534 --> 01:07:09,646 that looks like and then to come back 1692 01:07:09,646 --> 01:07:11,812 to Congress in the early fall with any 1693 01:07:11,812 --> 01:07:14,090 requests that we have around resources . 1694 01:07:14,380 --> 01:07:16,602 Well , thank you . And please do let us 1695 01:07:16,602 --> 01:07:18,713 know what what we can do to help make 1696 01:07:18,713 --> 01:07:20,602 sure that all of these things get 1697 01:07:20,602 --> 01:07:22,769 implemented . Um I wanted to follow up 1698 01:07:22,769 --> 01:07:24,936 on something . Uh My colleagues talked 1699 01:07:24,936 --> 01:07:27,158 about earlier around under reporting of 1700 01:07:27,158 --> 01:07:27,090 sexual assault , despite all of the 1701 01:07:27,090 --> 01:07:29,312 efforts that have been made to foster a 1702 01:07:29,312 --> 01:07:31,368 culture of trust , which you note is 1703 01:07:31,368 --> 01:07:33,701 key to enabling victims to come forward . 1704 01:07:33,701 --> 01:07:36,200 And Iran study showed that One in four 1705 01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,311 active duty women reported experience 1706 01:07:38,311 --> 01:07:40,033 of sexual harassment , but the 1707 01:07:40,033 --> 01:07:43,930 department only received 1,781 reports . 1708 01:07:43,930 --> 01:07:46,410 So while sweeping reforms are necessary , 1709 01:07:46,420 --> 01:07:49,970 um I wanted to know what what work you 1710 01:07:49,970 --> 01:07:51,914 will do to make sure that as those 1711 01:07:51,914 --> 01:07:53,637 reforms are taking place there 1712 01:07:53,637 --> 01:07:56,000 communicated clearly in order to foster 1713 01:07:56,010 --> 01:07:58,232 greater confidence in any new reporting 1714 01:07:58,232 --> 01:08:02,160 systems . I'll share 1715 01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,840 an anecdote that the IRC has in its own 1716 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,007 report . I hope I'm not stealing their 1717 01:08:07,007 --> 01:08:09,118 thunder . But they give an example of 1718 01:08:09,118 --> 01:08:11,890 where prevention , you know , one 1719 01:08:11,900 --> 01:08:14,260 example they saw was considered to be 1720 01:08:14,270 --> 01:08:16,103 good expenditure of resources on 1721 01:08:16,103 --> 01:08:18,103 prevention was water bottles with a 1722 01:08:18,103 --> 01:08:20,103 with a phone number on it . You can 1723 01:08:20,103 --> 01:08:22,159 pick your your favorite example like 1724 01:08:22,159 --> 01:08:24,381 that . It takes a lot more than that to 1725 01:08:24,381 --> 01:08:27,510 your point , um to actually create that 1726 01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:29,510 trust in the system to ensure folks 1727 01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:31,510 know where they're supposed to go . 1728 01:08:31,510 --> 01:08:33,732 It's a lot of training and it is that I 1729 01:08:33,732 --> 01:08:35,732 just say one thing , it's that high 1730 01:08:35,732 --> 01:08:37,621 quality prevention workforce , if 1731 01:08:37,621 --> 01:08:39,621 there's one thing I think um that I 1732 01:08:39,621 --> 01:08:41,843 really took away from my visits to Fort 1733 01:08:41,843 --> 01:08:44,770 Hood , my meetings with the G in family 1734 01:08:44,770 --> 01:08:47,330 and other um , like endeavors of 1735 01:08:47,330 --> 01:08:49,386 reading the Fort Hood report . It is 1736 01:08:49,386 --> 01:08:51,386 the importance of that prevention , 1737 01:08:51,386 --> 01:08:53,441 having that professional specialized 1738 01:08:53,441 --> 01:08:55,920 prevention workforce . Um , so I think 1739 01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,150 that's a lot of what we can do to 1740 01:08:58,150 --> 01:09:00,640 ensure folks actually feel comfortable 1741 01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:02,862 reporting . They know where to report . 1742 01:09:02,970 --> 01:09:04,970 And if they're a little wrong about 1743 01:09:04,970 --> 01:09:07,081 where to report , they're still going 1744 01:09:07,081 --> 01:09:09,026 to get the outcome , they're still 1745 01:09:09,026 --> 01:09:11,248 going to get response . Thank you . And 1746 01:09:11,248 --> 01:09:13,470 my time is running short , so I'll send 1747 01:09:13,470 --> 01:09:12,720 the actual question for the record , 1748 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,053 but just wanted to note that , you know , 1749 01:09:15,053 --> 01:09:17,164 it's been over a decade since . Don't 1750 01:09:17,164 --> 01:09:19,220 ask . Don't tell was repealed . Um , 1751 01:09:19,220 --> 01:09:21,498 and yet I hear all the time from L . G . 1752 01:09:21,498 --> 01:09:23,276 B . T . Q . Plus members of the 1753 01:09:23,276 --> 01:09:24,942 military who continue to face 1754 01:09:24,942 --> 01:09:27,164 unparalleled levels of harassment . And 1755 01:09:27,164 --> 01:09:27,030 so just want to make sure that that 1756 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,270 issue doesn't get lost as we focus so 1757 01:09:29,270 --> 01:09:31,326 rightly on the women in the force as 1758 01:09:31,326 --> 01:09:33,326 well , Madam chair , I yield back , 1759 01:09:33,370 --> 01:09:35,537 gentlewoman's time has expired and she 1760 01:09:35,537 --> 01:09:38,250 yields um to underscore that point to 1761 01:09:38,250 --> 01:09:40,417 recent rand study , as I'm sure you're 1762 01:09:40,417 --> 01:09:43,610 aware Dr Hicks indicates that 40% of 1763 01:09:43,610 --> 01:09:45,943 the victims of sexual assault are L . G . 1764 01:09:45,943 --> 01:09:48,054 B . T . Q . Members . So it's an area 1765 01:09:48,054 --> 01:09:50,166 where you need to spend a lot of time 1766 01:09:50,166 --> 01:09:53,030 on , um , will now have the gentleman 1767 01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:56,990 from Maryland . It's been and 1768 01:09:57,470 --> 01:09:59,600 is Miss Strickland Has she returned ? 1769 01:10:00,660 --> 01:10:04,330 I'm here . We can't see you . There you 1770 01:10:04,330 --> 01:10:06,497 are . We can see you now . All right . 1771 01:10:06,497 --> 01:10:08,330 The gentleman from Washington is 1772 01:10:08,330 --> 01:10:11,270 recognized for five minutes . Thank you , 1773 01:10:11,270 --> 01:10:14,110 madam . Chair Deputy Secretary Hicks . 1774 01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,420 An issue that has been identified in a 1775 01:10:16,420 --> 01:10:18,700 series of reports including the IRC 1776 01:10:18,700 --> 01:10:20,820 report is the problems with data 1777 01:10:20,820 --> 01:10:23,320 collection across the services when it 1778 01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:25,710 comes to identifying racial disparities 1779 01:10:25,710 --> 01:10:27,654 and the administration of military 1780 01:10:27,654 --> 01:10:31,160 Justice . The IRC reportedly said it 1781 01:10:31,170 --> 01:10:33,520 said it clearly racial disparities in 1782 01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,490 the military justice system are 1783 01:10:35,490 --> 01:10:37,890 inherently tied to sexual harassment 1784 01:10:37,890 --> 01:10:39,946 and sexual assault . Given that this 1785 01:10:39,946 --> 01:10:42,001 problem is across all the services . 1786 01:10:42,001 --> 01:10:44,168 Can you describe how the department is 1787 01:10:44,168 --> 01:10:46,334 working to standardize data collection 1788 01:10:46,334 --> 01:10:48,390 so that we get a complete picture on 1789 01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:49,890 the scope of the problem . 1790 01:10:50,660 --> 01:10:52,549 Congresswoman , I would owe you a 1791 01:10:52,549 --> 01:10:54,771 fuller response for the record . What I 1792 01:10:54,771 --> 01:10:57,270 would say is that the your very point , 1793 01:10:57,270 --> 01:11:00,180 the department was it was made clear in 1794 01:11:00,180 --> 01:11:02,320 the G . A . O . Reporting that data 1795 01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,320 collection is a major challenge and 1796 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,264 that we owe greater accountability 1797 01:11:06,264 --> 01:11:08,487 around that . Um It is my understanding 1798 01:11:08,487 --> 01:11:10,598 that beginning late last year we have 1799 01:11:10,598 --> 01:11:12,764 begun stronger data collection , but I 1800 01:11:12,764 --> 01:11:14,876 want to give you a fuller response to 1801 01:11:14,876 --> 01:11:17,950 that . All right , thank you . And then 1802 01:11:17,950 --> 01:11:19,950 one other question I have as well . 1803 01:11:19,950 --> 01:11:22,117 Underrepresented groups are especially 1804 01:11:22,117 --> 01:11:23,950 vulnerable to sexual assault and 1805 01:11:23,950 --> 01:11:25,950 harassment , potentially because of 1806 01:11:25,950 --> 01:11:28,450 harmful effects of attitudes on gender , 1807 01:11:28,460 --> 01:11:31,280 race , ethnicity , sexual orientation 1808 01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:34,690 and gender identity , gay and bisexual . 1809 01:11:34,690 --> 01:11:37,100 Service members are much more likely to 1810 01:11:37,100 --> 01:11:38,933 be sexually assaulted than their 1811 01:11:38,933 --> 01:11:41,210 heterosexual peers . And racial and 1812 01:11:41,220 --> 01:11:43,820 ethnic minority women may experience 1813 01:11:43,820 --> 01:11:46,520 both racial harassment and gender based 1814 01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,840 violence simultaneously , perhaps 1815 01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,430 making both more difficult to detect or 1816 01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:53,597 report . This indicates that we have a 1817 01:11:53,597 --> 01:11:55,597 lot of work to do to ensure that we 1818 01:11:55,597 --> 01:11:57,652 have a force that is inclusive and a 1819 01:11:57,652 --> 01:11:59,790 command climate that maintains good 1820 01:11:59,790 --> 01:12:01,990 order and good discipline . Could you 1821 01:12:01,990 --> 01:12:04,046 please talk more about why having an 1822 01:12:04,046 --> 01:12:05,768 inclusive forces important for 1823 01:12:05,768 --> 01:12:08,170 maintaining readiness and vitality for 1824 01:12:08,170 --> 01:12:10,392 the second part of that question . Tell 1825 01:12:10,392 --> 01:12:12,448 me how the department is planning to 1826 01:12:12,448 --> 01:12:14,226 address these harmful beliefs . 1827 01:12:15,450 --> 01:12:17,920 Certainly , congresswoman . Um , I 1828 01:12:17,930 --> 01:12:20,590 really appreciate the several of you 1829 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,711 culminating here who have raised this 1830 01:12:22,711 --> 01:12:25,400 issue that those who are affected by 1831 01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,980 sexual harassment , sexual first of all 1832 01:12:27,980 --> 01:12:30,147 are not just women and second of all , 1833 01:12:30,147 --> 01:12:32,313 the disproportionate percent who are L 1834 01:12:32,313 --> 01:12:35,450 G B T . Q plus . Um , Representative of 1835 01:12:35,450 --> 01:12:37,783 L . G . Uh , well , I can't do it again . 1836 01:12:37,783 --> 01:12:40,800 I'm sorry , LGBTQ plus community . Um , 1837 01:12:40,810 --> 01:12:43,580 so I think one of the key things we're 1838 01:12:43,580 --> 01:12:45,802 doing in terms of inclusion , really is 1839 01:12:45,802 --> 01:12:47,810 this diversity equity and inclusion 1840 01:12:47,810 --> 01:12:49,866 initiative set that we have underway 1841 01:12:49,866 --> 01:12:52,420 for the Deputies workforce council that 1842 01:12:52,420 --> 01:12:55,460 I chair and that is itself a whole set 1843 01:12:55,470 --> 01:12:59,150 of initiatives looking significantly at 1844 01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,160 around training and education around 1845 01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:05,300 recruitment and retention and promotion 1846 01:13:05,310 --> 01:13:07,550 is a significant piece of that . We see 1847 01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:11,250 major drop off um in non white male 1848 01:13:11,250 --> 01:13:13,890 populations as we move up through , 1849 01:13:13,890 --> 01:13:16,001 particularly obviously in the general 1850 01:13:16,001 --> 01:13:18,223 and flag officer ranks . But even as we 1851 01:13:18,223 --> 01:13:20,390 move up through the senior N . C . O . 1852 01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:22,612 Links and then the officer ranks as you 1853 01:13:22,612 --> 01:13:25,140 move up . So we are trying to get after 1854 01:13:25,150 --> 01:13:27,290 how to change some of those dynamics 1855 01:13:27,290 --> 01:13:29,401 and by the way that's controlling for 1856 01:13:29,401 --> 01:13:31,346 factors , I just want to make that 1857 01:13:31,346 --> 01:13:33,512 clear that's controlling for all kinds 1858 01:13:33,512 --> 01:13:35,734 of factors . So you can really start to 1859 01:13:35,734 --> 01:13:37,901 see that it really does appear to be a 1860 01:13:37,901 --> 01:13:40,012 distinguish er um only with regard to 1861 01:13:40,012 --> 01:13:41,734 somebody's um ethnic or racial 1862 01:13:41,734 --> 01:13:43,957 background or gender . So we're looking 1863 01:13:43,957 --> 01:13:46,540 at those issues at the same time um 1864 01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:48,494 that we are looking at through the 1865 01:13:48,494 --> 01:13:50,494 prism of sexual harassment , sexual 1866 01:13:50,494 --> 01:13:52,328 assault , looking at this set of 1867 01:13:52,328 --> 01:13:54,830 prevention and climate um and victim 1868 01:13:54,830 --> 01:13:58,380 care approaches that we think can raise 1869 01:13:58,380 --> 01:14:00,436 the boats if you will for many other 1870 01:14:00,436 --> 01:14:02,324 issues , all the ones you've just 1871 01:14:02,324 --> 01:14:04,102 mentioned , but I will also say 1872 01:14:04,102 --> 01:14:06,158 regarding self harm . So things like 1873 01:14:06,158 --> 01:14:08,280 suicide um and other outcomes , 1874 01:14:08,290 --> 01:14:11,050 violence , outcomes that occur to 1875 01:14:11,050 --> 01:14:12,383 people who are in these 1876 01:14:12,383 --> 01:14:15,290 underrepresented communities . Right , 1877 01:14:15,290 --> 01:14:17,401 well , thank you very much for that . 1878 01:14:17,401 --> 01:14:19,457 We know that sexual assault is often 1879 01:14:19,457 --> 01:14:21,679 about power and control and some of the 1880 01:14:21,679 --> 01:14:23,734 disparities we see regard to race is 1881 01:14:23,734 --> 01:14:25,846 often conscious or unconscious bias . 1882 01:14:25,846 --> 01:14:27,623 So , thank you so much for your 1883 01:14:27,623 --> 01:14:29,679 thoughtful answers and thank you for 1884 01:14:29,679 --> 01:14:31,790 taking accountability for this madame 1885 01:14:31,790 --> 01:14:33,901 Sherry . You bet , gentlewoman yields 1886 01:14:33,901 --> 01:14:36,012 back . The gentleman from Maryland Mr 1887 01:14:36,012 --> 01:14:35,960 Brown is recognized for five minutes . 1888 01:14:35,970 --> 01:14:38,192 Thank you Madam Chair . And I thank the 1889 01:14:38,192 --> 01:14:40,303 committee for allowing me to waive on 1890 01:14:40,303 --> 01:14:42,470 for the purpose of this hearing . Good 1891 01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:44,526 afternoon . DR Hicks , Madam Chair . 1892 01:14:44,526 --> 01:14:46,581 First I ask for unanimous consent to 1893 01:14:46,581 --> 01:14:48,581 enter two items into the record . I 1894 01:14:48,581 --> 01:14:50,859 think committee staff should have them . 1895 01:14:50,859 --> 01:14:52,748 1 1952 article regarding military 1896 01:14:52,748 --> 01:14:54,692 opposition to desegregation of the 1897 01:14:54,692 --> 01:14:56,990 armed forces . And the other is a 1972 1898 01:14:56,990 --> 01:14:59,720 report from President Nixon's Task 1899 01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:01,740 Force on racial disparities in the 1900 01:15:01,740 --> 01:15:04,018 military . That objection , so ordered . 1901 01:15:04,018 --> 01:15:06,590 Thank you . DR Hicks under the Vanessa 1902 01:15:06,590 --> 01:15:09,770 G an act that's been introduced . 1903 01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:12,690 Let me preface by saying , I've served 1904 01:15:12,700 --> 01:15:15,280 as a commander in the army uh two 1905 01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,169 levels . I served as a Jag . I've 1906 01:15:17,169 --> 01:15:19,280 advised commanders with court martial 1907 01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,447 convening authority . I understand the 1908 01:15:21,447 --> 01:15:24,360 importance of the punitive articles and 1909 01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:26,582 the procedures , nonjudicial punishment 1910 01:15:26,582 --> 01:15:28,416 and the uniform code of military 1911 01:15:28,416 --> 01:15:30,470 justice as an important tool to 1912 01:15:30,470 --> 01:15:33,090 maintain good order uh and discipline . 1913 01:15:33,100 --> 01:15:36,420 Uh in in this act , the commander's 1914 01:15:36,420 --> 01:15:38,087 retain the authority to issue 1915 01:15:38,087 --> 01:15:40,300 nonjudicial punishment . They retain 1916 01:15:40,300 --> 01:15:42,990 authority over military specific crimes , 1917 01:15:42,990 --> 01:15:45,157 dereliction of duty , AWOL malingering 1918 01:15:45,157 --> 01:15:47,680 insubordination . The list goes on and 1919 01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:49,791 they also retain the ability to refer 1920 01:15:49,791 --> 01:15:52,420 charges to special court martial , for 1921 01:15:52,420 --> 01:15:54,587 example . Simple assault , right ? The 1922 01:15:54,587 --> 01:15:58,370 dining , the dining facility fight . Um , 1923 01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,910 can you explain the departments um , 1924 01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:05,010 thinking why those are not sufficient 1925 01:16:05,020 --> 01:16:08,300 tools to maintain good order and 1926 01:16:08,300 --> 01:16:10,240 discipline for a commander , 1927 01:16:12,530 --> 01:16:15,980 Congressman Brown ? We have not looked 1928 01:16:15,980 --> 01:16:18,147 as I said . We have not looked at this 1929 01:16:18,147 --> 01:16:22,020 issue set . We looked very broadly and 1930 01:16:22,020 --> 01:16:24,280 the very deeply on sexual assault and 1931 01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,890 sexual harassment we have not taken on . 1932 01:16:26,890 --> 01:16:29,290 And there aren't studies other than the 1933 01:16:29,290 --> 01:16:32,110 one I mentioned , um , uh , that the 1934 01:16:32,110 --> 01:16:34,332 department or department related bodies 1935 01:16:34,332 --> 01:16:37,480 have done looking at what it would take 1936 01:16:37,480 --> 01:16:39,480 or what the implications would be . 1937 01:16:39,480 --> 01:16:42,160 What I will tell you is our focus right 1938 01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,780 now . And as I sit before you right now 1939 01:16:44,780 --> 01:16:47,070 is making sure we get it right on the 1940 01:16:47,070 --> 01:16:49,237 sexual harassment , sexual assault and 1941 01:16:49,237 --> 01:16:52,280 related crimes . Um then let me ask you 1942 01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:54,613 follow up on this and I appreciate that . 1943 01:16:54,613 --> 01:16:58,300 So , uh the the D . O . D . The 1944 01:16:58,300 --> 01:17:01,850 department's proposal for reform only 1945 01:17:01,850 --> 01:17:03,700 partially implements the 1946 01:17:03,700 --> 01:17:06,350 recommendations of the I . R . C . 1947 01:17:07,030 --> 01:17:09,430 Notably and correct me if I'm wrong , 1948 01:17:09,500 --> 01:17:12,280 notably the department only establishes 1949 01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:14,336 one of the recommended three special 1950 01:17:14,336 --> 01:17:16,430 victims categories . I think one of 1951 01:17:16,430 --> 01:17:19,050 them is which the department accepts 1952 01:17:19,050 --> 01:17:22,600 are the um specified 1953 01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:25,090 offenses but does not accept the trade 1954 01:17:25,090 --> 01:17:26,979 of victim category number two and 1955 01:17:26,979 --> 01:17:28,980 category number three is intent of 1956 01:17:28,980 --> 01:17:31,430 offender . Now , you have acknowledged 1957 01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:33,430 an apartment , has acknowledged the 1958 01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:35,740 complexity of these cases . The need to 1959 01:17:35,740 --> 01:17:38,540 follow best practices , special victims 1960 01:17:38,540 --> 01:17:40,510 units which we see India's offices 1961 01:17:40,510 --> 01:17:43,860 around the country . Um , and they do 1962 01:17:43,860 --> 01:17:45,804 that so they can take on all three 1963 01:17:45,804 --> 01:17:48,050 categories as recommended by the IRC . 1964 01:17:48,050 --> 01:17:51,960 The IRC also recommended uh that there 1965 01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:55,100 be a judge order , military protective 1966 01:17:55,110 --> 01:17:58,250 orders . So I guess my question is um , 1967 01:17:58,630 --> 01:18:01,400 the department after decades has 1968 01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:04,580 resisted change . Um I think 60 days or 1969 01:18:04,580 --> 01:18:06,680 90 day review by the ICC . Very 1970 01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:08,700 comprehensive , very capable and 1971 01:18:08,700 --> 01:18:10,700 knowledgeable people . They've come 1972 01:18:10,700 --> 01:18:13,220 back with robust recommendations to 1973 01:18:13,220 --> 01:18:15,230 address sexual assault . Why is the 1974 01:18:15,230 --> 01:18:17,750 department not accepting their 1975 01:18:17,750 --> 01:18:19,750 recommendations in their entirety ? 1976 01:18:22,020 --> 01:18:24,330 The department is looking ahead not 1977 01:18:24,330 --> 01:18:26,870 just at the legal piece of this but at 1978 01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:29,090 the change implementation and 1979 01:18:29,090 --> 01:18:32,440 management side of it . And in doing 1980 01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:35,530 that and weighing the advice , um 1981 01:18:35,540 --> 01:18:37,880 Inside the department , outside experts 1982 01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,020 like the I . R . C . Um the approach 1983 01:18:41,020 --> 01:18:44,480 really is this balance of how do we 1984 01:18:44,490 --> 01:18:47,260 implement change that has real effect 1985 01:18:47,270 --> 01:18:49,330 quickly meaningfully and that can 1986 01:18:49,330 --> 01:18:53,280 withstand um challenge . I'm sure 1987 01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:55,502 you're , you know , the U . C . M . J . 1988 01:18:55,502 --> 01:18:57,558 Changes , the U C m J are frequently 1989 01:18:57,558 --> 01:18:59,391 challenged in court . We saw the 1990 01:18:59,391 --> 01:19:01,280 Australians when they moved to an 1991 01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:03,900 outside system um that actually was 1992 01:19:03,900 --> 01:19:05,956 thrown out by the Australian Supreme 1993 01:19:05,956 --> 01:19:08,067 Court and so they had to restart . So 1994 01:19:08,067 --> 01:19:10,178 what we also know that in shape , let 1995 01:19:10,178 --> 01:19:12,178 me say in this country , the courts 1996 01:19:12,178 --> 01:19:14,344 have differed tremendously to both the 1997 01:19:14,344 --> 01:19:16,178 executive branch and Congress in 1998 01:19:16,178 --> 01:19:18,233 implementing the rules that regulate 1999 01:19:18,233 --> 01:19:20,400 the the the armed forces . I mean they 2000 01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:22,233 really have . So I'm just really 2001 01:19:22,233 --> 01:19:24,456 concerned because for example , in that 2002 01:19:24,456 --> 01:19:26,622 category to trade a victim , you could 2003 01:19:26,622 --> 01:19:28,844 have a scenario where you have intimate 2004 01:19:28,844 --> 01:19:31,850 partners and where one partner is um is 2005 01:19:31,860 --> 01:19:33,916 stealing from the other partner as a 2006 01:19:33,916 --> 01:19:36,690 form of abuse . And I'm not sure if 2007 01:19:36,700 --> 01:19:39,230 just following category one specified 2008 01:19:39,230 --> 01:19:42,850 offenses that that would qualify as an 2009 01:19:42,850 --> 01:19:44,910 offense that would be now under this 2010 01:19:44,910 --> 01:19:48,330 new system . Yeah , congressman , I 2011 01:19:48,340 --> 01:19:50,396 completely understand the same thing 2012 01:19:50,396 --> 01:19:52,340 will happen if you make a one year 2013 01:19:52,620 --> 01:19:55,240 differentiation . So . Well the reason 2014 01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,240 why I beg to differ again , go into 2015 01:19:57,240 --> 01:19:59,351 best practices and if you didn't just 2016 01:19:59,351 --> 01:20:01,462 indulge me madam chair , you know , I 2017 01:20:01,462 --> 01:20:03,573 do believe in best practices and when 2018 01:20:03,573 --> 01:20:05,740 you look at the best practices and U . 2019 01:20:05,740 --> 01:20:07,907 S . Attorney's offices and India . Yes 2020 01:20:07,907 --> 01:20:07,840 they have felony divisions and they 2021 01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:10,062 have misdemeanor divisions and there is 2022 01:20:10,062 --> 01:20:12,007 overlapping those divisions within 2023 01:20:12,007 --> 01:20:14,007 felony divisions . You have special 2024 01:20:14,007 --> 01:20:16,229 victims units and those victims special 2025 01:20:16,229 --> 01:20:17,784 victims units are much more 2026 01:20:17,784 --> 01:20:19,951 comprehensive than what the department 2027 01:20:19,951 --> 01:20:22,284 is willing to accept from the I . R . C . 2028 01:20:22,284 --> 01:20:24,396 U . Took members with with tremendous 2029 01:20:24,396 --> 01:20:26,618 amount of experience created an IRC yet 2030 01:20:26,618 --> 01:20:28,960 are coming back and , and only , um , 2031 01:20:28,970 --> 01:20:32,300 embracing a much narrow subset of , of 2032 01:20:32,300 --> 01:20:34,522 what they're recommending and that's on 2033 01:20:34,522 --> 01:20:36,689 the special victims . But it's not the 2034 01:20:36,689 --> 01:20:38,633 felony misdemeanor piece . So that 2035 01:20:38,633 --> 01:20:38,040 that's my concern . I've been hearing a 2036 01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:40,207 lot about best practices , but yet I'm 2037 01:20:40,207 --> 01:20:42,429 not really hearing the adoption of best 2038 01:20:42,429 --> 01:20:44,651 practices and if I can just complete on 2039 01:20:44,651 --> 01:20:46,880 this on this point , madam Chair , I've 2040 01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,630 heard a lot about solving the problem . 2041 01:20:50,510 --> 01:20:52,566 Um , for 10 years we've brought this 2042 01:20:52,566 --> 01:20:54,288 problem . Commanders have it , 2043 01:20:54,288 --> 01:20:56,343 commanders have commanders have it . 2044 01:20:56,343 --> 01:20:58,310 Finally , after 90 day to review 2045 01:20:58,420 --> 01:21:00,142 commanders didn't have it . We 2046 01:21:00,142 --> 01:21:02,364 recognized and why it really comes down 2047 01:21:02,364 --> 01:21:04,810 to a data set That soldiers , sailors , 2048 01:21:04,820 --> 01:21:06,876 airmen , Marines and Guardians Don't 2049 01:21:06,876 --> 01:21:08,987 Trust Commanders . That's the primary 2050 01:21:08,987 --> 01:21:11,042 dataset here . The lack of trust and 2051 01:21:11,042 --> 01:21:13,153 that's why we're taking away from the 2052 01:21:13,153 --> 01:21:15,264 commanders . I put into the record in 2053 01:21:15,264 --> 01:21:18,710 1972 study , what they found was a lack 2054 01:21:18,710 --> 01:21:21,260 of trust , black and brown service 2055 01:21:21,260 --> 01:21:23,610 members in commanders . This issue has 2056 01:21:23,610 --> 01:21:25,610 been around for a long time . The 2057 01:21:25,610 --> 01:21:28,600 problem , the problem can be simplified . 2058 01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:30,600 It's not a simple problem . It's an 2059 01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,120 under prosecution of sexual assault and 2060 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,287 an over prosecution of black and brown 2061 01:21:35,287 --> 01:21:37,509 people . We know the problem . It's a , 2062 01:21:37,509 --> 01:21:39,620 there's a lack of trust between black 2063 01:21:39,620 --> 01:21:41,398 and brown and commanders in the 2064 01:21:41,398 --> 01:21:43,564 military justice system and there's an 2065 01:21:43,564 --> 01:21:47,410 opportunity to address that just like 2066 01:21:47,410 --> 01:21:50,630 we believe removing from the commanders , 2067 01:21:51,610 --> 01:21:53,970 referral of charges sexual assaults . 2068 01:21:53,970 --> 01:21:56,230 To solve this lack of trust problem , 2069 01:21:56,910 --> 01:21:59,430 we can do the same thing with a broader 2070 01:21:59,430 --> 01:22:02,330 set of offenses because I heard someone 2071 01:22:02,330 --> 01:22:04,663 from the department recently say , well , 2072 01:22:04,663 --> 01:22:06,774 the sexual assault to it's a pressing 2073 01:22:06,774 --> 01:22:08,663 problem right now and nobody will 2074 01:22:08,663 --> 01:22:11,610 disagree with that . But the over 2075 01:22:11,610 --> 01:22:13,721 prosecution of black and brown people 2076 01:22:13,721 --> 01:22:15,943 in the military justice system and when 2077 01:22:15,943 --> 01:22:18,166 the cap , when capital punishment was , 2078 01:22:18,166 --> 01:22:20,221 was issued in the in in the military 2079 01:22:20,221 --> 01:22:22,388 justice system , overrepresentation of 2080 01:22:22,388 --> 01:22:25,300 black men being prosecuted and found 2081 01:22:25,300 --> 01:22:27,300 guilty of capital punishment in the 2082 01:22:27,300 --> 01:22:29,467 military . That's a pressing problem . 2083 01:22:30,900 --> 01:22:33,067 And yet we have an opportunity here to 2084 01:22:33,067 --> 01:22:34,970 begin addressing it . And what I 2085 01:22:34,970 --> 01:22:37,137 haven't heard from the department is , 2086 01:22:37,137 --> 01:22:39,359 well , we don't want to do the sweeping 2087 01:22:39,359 --> 01:22:41,470 reform , but can you at least give us 2088 01:22:41,470 --> 01:22:43,637 some more tools and all I'm hearing is 2089 01:22:43,637 --> 01:22:45,692 we'll fix it . And that's what we've 2090 01:22:45,692 --> 01:22:47,914 heard for 10 , 10 , 10 years for sexual 2091 01:22:47,914 --> 01:22:47,370 assault . Thank you , Madam Chair , A 2092 01:22:47,370 --> 01:22:50,420 little bit expired 2093 01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:54,840 dr hicks . Uh , we have a vote on and 2094 01:22:54,850 --> 01:22:57,460 um , I think we're going to conclude 2095 01:22:57,470 --> 01:22:59,630 this part of the hearing . We want to 2096 01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,230 thank you very much for the swift 2097 01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:04,360 action with which you have undertaken 2098 01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:08,120 the um requested by the secretary 2099 01:23:08,130 --> 01:23:11,680 and the president . And um we're deeply 2100 01:23:11,690 --> 01:23:13,912 indebted to you for the professionalism 2101 01:23:13,912 --> 01:23:15,579 that you've shown in that the 2102 01:23:15,579 --> 01:23:17,690 commission has shown as well . Um I'm 2103 01:23:17,690 --> 01:23:19,912 going to just ask you this question for 2104 01:23:19,912 --> 01:23:22,079 the record and then if you can respond 2105 01:23:22,079 --> 01:23:24,412 to us , the prevention portion of the R . 2106 01:23:24,412 --> 01:23:26,468 R . C . S . Report calls for a major 2107 01:23:26,468 --> 01:23:29,940 expansion of prevention workforce 2108 01:23:29,940 --> 01:23:32,770 and I would like to know what the 2109 01:23:32,770 --> 01:23:35,360 timeline is to execute on that . How 2110 01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:38,320 many people you are anticipating hiring ? 2111 01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:41,120 Are they civilian ? Um are they 2112 01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:43,911 military ? And what are their role is 2113 01:23:43,911 --> 01:23:46,022 going to be ? So if you could provide 2114 01:23:46,022 --> 01:23:48,244 that to us for the record . All right . 2115 01:23:48,244 --> 01:23:50,356 And with that we will stand in recess 2116 01:23:50,356 --> 01:23:53,370 for about um an hour because we have 2117 01:23:53,370 --> 01:23:54,920 three votes . Thank you .