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The military personnel subcommittee 

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will return from its recess now 

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And we are going to welcome our 2nd 

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panel . We're joined by the chair of 

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the Independent Review Commission on 

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Sexual assault in the Military . Miss 

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Lynn Rosenthal . Welcome Major General 

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James johnson . It's retired . Also a 

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member of the Independent Review 

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Commission on Sexual Assault in the 

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Military dr Colleen , Kellyanne Kyleen . 

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What's the right , Kyla , Kyla and 

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Hunter um also a member of the 

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Independent Review Commission . And 

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Miss Christina Rose , another member of 

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the commission . Yeah . And I 

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think Miss to Cash , who is not in my 

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notes here , but welcome as well . Um I 

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understand you all have submitted a 

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joint statement . MS Rosenthal will 

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speak on behalf of the I . R . C . 

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After MS Rosenthal statement , each 

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member will have an opportunity to 

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question the witnesses for five minutes . 

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We respectfully ask the witnesses 

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summarize their testimony in five 

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minutes . Your written comments and 

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statements will be made part of the 

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hearing record . And with that Mr Rosen . 

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Thought we welcome you . Thank you 

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congresswoman and thank you for your 

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leadership over all these many years . 

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Ranking member Gallagher and other 

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distinguished members of the 

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subcommittee . Thank you for the 

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opportunity to present the findings and 

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recommendations of the Independent 

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Review Commission on Sexual Assault in 

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the Military . I also want to recognize 

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the leadership of Secretary Austin and 

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Dr Hicks and the service leaders who 

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met with the IRC and shared their views . 

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The ICC was comprised of 12 highly 

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qualified experts from outside the 

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Department of Defense , three of whom 

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are with me today . Five of the I . R . 

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C . S . Members were former military 

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commanders and two served as judge 

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advocates . As you know , the IRC made 

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82 recommendations across four lines of 

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effort , accountability , prevention , 

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climate and culture and victim care and 

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support because leadership is at the 

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heart of military culture and unit 

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climate . These recommendations target 

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leaders at all levels . For decades . 

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As you well know , service leaders have 

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said that there is no tolerance for 

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sexual harassment and that sexual 

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assault has no place in our military 

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and yet in the daily lives of service 

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members , sexual harassment goes 

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unchecked and sexual assault is poorly 

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handled . This has resulted in broken 

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trust between service members and 

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commanders . This damage trust has 

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consequences for the military justice 

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system , which the IRC found is ill 

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equipped to handle crimes like sexual 

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assault . The current system puts legal 

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decisions about these complex cases in 

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the hands of commanders whose 

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leadership is better suited to other 

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aspects of sexual assault , prevention 

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and response . Sexual assault and 

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related crimes can be re traumatizing 

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for victims and create the perception 

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of conflict of interest for commanders , 

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they require greater specialization and 

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sensitivity to the complex dynamics 

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that are often present . For these 

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reasons , the IRC has recommended 

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shifting decisions about sexual assault 

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and related criminal prosecutions to 

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experience special victims prosecutors 

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outside the chain of command . We 

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recommend that these special victim 

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prosecutors have civilian oversight 

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within the Department of Defense . The 

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IRC emphasizes , however , that making 

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changes to the military justice system 

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alone will not reduce sexual 

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assault , investing in prevention , 

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improving command climates and 

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enhancing victim care are equally 

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necessary . The I . R . C . S . Climate 

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and culture experts identified outdated 

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social and gender norms that contribute 

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to a culture of hostility toward women , 

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increasing the risk of sexual 

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harassment and assault . We also found 

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that the cyber domain can be as strong 

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an influence on unit climate as real 

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time interactions and that leaders are 

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poorly equipped to deal with this ever 

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changing environment . We've made a 

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series of recommendations to improve 

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unit climate , including better methods 

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to select , develop and evaluate 

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leaders . The IRC found critical 

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deficiencies throughout the work force 

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charged with responding to sexual 

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harassment and assault . These 

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deficiencies have multiple causes , 

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including frequent rotations of service 

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members in essential positions and 

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underfunded mandates . This is 

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particularly apparent in victim care 

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where there are thousands of collateral 

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duty victim advocates , many of whom 

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are volatile old to serve as their 

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units advocate in the off hours . This 

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practice results in poor care for 

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victims in the military justice system . 

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The lack of dedicated career tracks and 

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billets for prosecutors , investigators 

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and special victims counsel results in 

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a critical lack of experience . one 

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Survivor told us that over the course 

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of her case , She had two different 

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prosecution teams and four different 

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special victims counsel . These 

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workforce deficiencies also extend to 

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prevention . These activities or 

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prevention responsibilities are often 

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assigned a personnel who lack the 

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capacity to design , implement and 

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evaluate science based prevention 

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initiatives . The military requires the 

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resources to make long term investments 

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and a prevention workforce if we want 

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to move the needle , it is also in the 

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best interest of D . O . D . And the 

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services to learn more about the risk 

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they take in recruiting members to the 

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force . And this includes studying and 

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piloting compatibility assessments and 

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alarmingly the IRC found critical 

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failings and victim care and support . 

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Every survivor that we interviewed told 

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us that they regretted making a report 

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whether restricted or unrestricted . 

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Nearly all the survivors who we heard 

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from had contemplated or attempted 

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suicide recommendations to improve 

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victim care include shifting sexual 

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assault response coordinators out of 

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the command structure and victim 

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advocates as well , largely eliminating 

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collateral duty victim advocates and 

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expanding access to behavioral health 

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services . And we have a number of 

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recommendations in that regard because 

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of the IRC is urgent concern for 

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victim's safety and wellbeing . We 

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recommend that this area be prioritized 

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for immediate action . We also 

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identified the related need to improve 

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the response to domestic violence , 

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which is inherently linked to sexual 

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assault . The I . R . C . Recognizes 

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that our report presents a challenging 

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picture , but we believe that with 

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leadership and resources , significant 

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progress can and will be made . And I'm 

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joined by Megan to cash from our 

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accountability line of effort , Kai 

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Hunter from our climate and culture 

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line of effort and James johnson from 

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our prevention line of effort . And as 

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you know , that Chris Rose is also here 

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with us today from the victim care and 

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support . So we're happy to answer 

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questions . Thank you . Mr Rosenthal . 

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I must say that in reading this report , 

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I was I was so 

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impressed and um 

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clear that you all in a very short 

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period of time . Got it . And um 

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it's just reassuring to those of us 

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who've been working in this issue erI 

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for so long that we weren't going crazy 

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that in fact there were those 

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professionals who could come in and 

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look at the problem and recognize the 

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issues . Let me start by asking you 

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this chairman chairwoman protective 

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orders . 2/3 of our service members 

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live off base , 1/3 on base 

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and the protective orders that exist 

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right now um are from the commander . 

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They don't carry any weight outside of 

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um the base and there's a growing 

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need to um create these military 

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protective orders that are issued by a 

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military judge . Um You recommend that 

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in your report it is not in the 

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department's recommendations . Can you 

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explain why it's so important um to 

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change this in the system ? Sorry . Yes , 

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yes . Megan to cash , we welcome you . 

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Thank you ma'am . Every county tribe 

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and territory in the United States of 

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America has complied with the full 

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faith and credit clause of the United 

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States Constitution . The IRC believes 

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that the military can and should do the 

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same . This is something that is not 

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controversial . Creating a judge issued 

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military protective orders . Is its 

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time has come in the military . Just as 

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you said , Ma'am , Over 60% of service 

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members live off of installations and 

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to be able to have military protective 

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orders that are enforceable , both on 

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and off military installations is 

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critical . This is a victim facing 

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issue . It is a safety issue and is one 

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that needs to be addressed now . Thank 

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you . DR Hunter , the 

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A command climate surveys we found from 

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the fort hood independent review 

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committee were not even being um 

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reviewed . Uh tell us what the 

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commission's recommendations are on 

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climate surveys and how is that going 

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to change the dynamic ? Yes , thank you 

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so much man for that question . As you 

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noted that command climate surveys 

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particularly detox which are done once 

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a year are do have a very important 

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role but there are over 100 questions 

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on them . They are often not released 

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in a timely fashion and there is no 

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accountability mechanism to hold 

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commanders accountable for addressing 

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what those deficiencies are . So , our 

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recommendation here centres around one 

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a study to look at What tools would be 

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effective for commanders . But more 

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than that , the introduction of Pulse 

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surveys which would be quick 3-5 

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questions done on a regular intervals 

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and that's really up to services and 

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installations to determine what that 

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intervals is . But they provide real 

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time actionable and easy to understand 

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information for the commanders because 

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commanders can't fix what they don't 

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know is happening there and time and 

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time again we heard from commanders 

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that they just didn't know how big or 

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bad issues were there . So this is , 

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this is an essential tool . We saw this 

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implemented in Fort Hood by the Fort 

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Hood IRC and it provided incredible 

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information to command there as to 

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really the depth and breadth of the , 

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of the problem . I think the V . A . Is 

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using that system now . Yes , they are , 

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they are very important , best practice 

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to look at when we look at what 

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oversight to actually implement this 

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would be . Uh Doctor , would you 

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restate the story ? You just told me 

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that actually made my heart sink 

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about the service member And I guess in 

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Iraq , Yes Ma'am , um PFC uh Johnson , 

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she was found in her tent in 2005 . 

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00:12:09,890 --> 00:12:13,710
Iraq dead . Her death was ruled a 

281
00:12:13,710 --> 00:12:17,010
suicide . However , autopsy report 

282
00:12:17,020 --> 00:12:20,960
revealed rape and battery had occurred . 

283
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,830
And yet they closed the case . They 

284
00:12:23,830 --> 00:12:26,190
said no more . Her family is continuing 

285
00:12:26,190 --> 00:12:28,460
to press for answers and the army isn't 

286
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,070
reopening or addressing her case . And 

287
00:12:31,070 --> 00:12:33,230
so when we really think about getting 

288
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,100
at the depth of issues on campus and 

289
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:38,800
there are she , she has huge 

290
00:12:38,810 --> 00:12:40,921
intersectional issues . When you look 

291
00:12:40,921 --> 00:12:43,530
at the impact of racial discrimination , 

292
00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:45,762
ethnic discrimination , some of the mos 

293
00:12:45,762 --> 00:12:47,873
discrimination that that exists . And 

294
00:12:47,873 --> 00:12:50,140
so giving to commanders tools to 

295
00:12:50,140 --> 00:12:52,890
actually understand the depth of what's 

296
00:12:52,890 --> 00:12:54,890
going on in their commands is 

297
00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:57,660
absolutely essential . Thank you . Uh 

298
00:12:57,670 --> 00:13:01,110
Mr Cash . I worked for a period of time 

299
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,176
on the issue of sexual harassment in 

300
00:13:03,176 --> 00:13:05,690
Congress . And as a result of that 

301
00:13:05,690 --> 00:13:09,210
effort , we passed a house rule 

302
00:13:09,220 --> 00:13:12,410
that requires members . Um actually , 

303
00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:15,650
it's a an act requires members if they 

304
00:13:15,660 --> 00:13:17,827
are found to have sexually harassed or 

305
00:13:17,827 --> 00:13:20,040
they um , settled in a sexual 

306
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,020
harassment case , um , that the 

307
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:24,974
settlement would not come from the 

308
00:13:24,974 --> 00:13:28,060
taxpayers but would come from the 

309
00:13:28,070 --> 00:13:31,760
members pockets . And I thought that 

310
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,204
was a way of establishing 

311
00:13:33,204 --> 00:13:35,316
accountability and , and hopefully to 

312
00:13:35,316 --> 00:13:37,482
discourage that kind of behavior . I'm 

313
00:13:37,482 --> 00:13:39,427
trying to grapple with . How do we 

314
00:13:39,427 --> 00:13:41,330
compensate the victims of sexual 

315
00:13:41,330 --> 00:13:43,580
harassment and sexual assault in the 

316
00:13:43,580 --> 00:13:45,358
military , where there has been 

317
00:13:45,358 --> 00:13:48,850
negligence by the command , um , 

318
00:13:48,860 --> 00:13:52,060
in not providing the care and 

319
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:55,490
justice . And how do we hold the 

320
00:13:55,490 --> 00:13:57,601
perpetrators accountable as well ? Do 

321
00:13:57,601 --> 00:13:59,712
you have any thoughts on that ? Yes , 

322
00:13:59,712 --> 00:14:02,370
ma'am . Under the current construct , 

323
00:14:02,380 --> 00:14:06,330
there is no civil avenue of recourse in 

324
00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:08,870
the military for military service 

325
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:10,537
members who experience sexual 

326
00:14:10,537 --> 00:14:12,203
harassment to be able to seek 

327
00:14:12,203 --> 00:14:14,037
compensation from other military 

328
00:14:14,037 --> 00:14:16,570
members . One of the recommendations , 

329
00:14:16,580 --> 00:14:19,160
however , that we made as an I . R . C . 

330
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,960
Was , we believe deeply that there 

331
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,640
should be a mandatory restitution 

332
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,830
provisions for victims of sexual 

333
00:14:26,830 --> 00:14:28,886
harassment and sexual assault within 

334
00:14:28,886 --> 00:14:31,430
the military context . That mirrors the 

335
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:33,560
mandatory victims Restitution Act of 

336
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,370
1996 . It's really a matter of equity 

337
00:14:37,370 --> 00:14:39,537
when you think about it , just because 

338
00:14:39,537 --> 00:14:41,648
you are sexually harassed or sexually 

339
00:14:41,648 --> 00:14:43,870
assaulted in the military should not be 

340
00:14:43,870 --> 00:14:46,620
a bar to be able to seek a form of 

341
00:14:46,620 --> 00:14:48,820
restitution . So that's why we made 

342
00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:51,180
that recommendation . We left it up to 

343
00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:54,710
the department to uh , understand how 

344
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,530
and what that would look like . But we , 

345
00:14:57,530 --> 00:15:01,210
as a commission felt very strongly that , 

346
00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:04,150
again , as a matter of equity members 

347
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:05,983
who are sexually harassed in the 

348
00:15:05,983 --> 00:15:08,094
military or sexually assaulted in the 

349
00:15:08,094 --> 00:15:10,250
military should have equal access to 

350
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:12,460
justice in the form of restitution . 

351
00:15:13,140 --> 00:15:16,380
Thank you . My colleague Mr Gallagher's 

352
00:15:16,380 --> 00:15:19,270
recognized for seven minutes . Thank 

353
00:15:19,270 --> 00:15:21,900
you . Online harassment is mentioned 

354
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:24,560
throughout your report and MS Rosenthal , 

355
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,616
I appreciate very much your comments 

356
00:15:26,616 --> 00:15:29,760
about the um importance and salience of 

357
00:15:29,770 --> 00:15:32,130
prevention uh in this in this space . 

358
00:15:32,130 --> 00:15:33,908
But I'd be curious sort of with 

359
00:15:33,908 --> 00:15:36,130
prevention in mind and the complexities 

360
00:15:36,130 --> 00:15:38,352
of online harassment in mind . I mean , 

361
00:15:38,352 --> 00:15:40,930
what what preventative tools work well 

362
00:15:40,930 --> 00:15:43,041
in that space . And what do you think 

363
00:15:43,041 --> 00:15:44,986
commanders and leaders are missing 

364
00:15:44,986 --> 00:15:46,819
about online harassment ? Yeah , 

365
00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:52,484
I'm gonna turn first to Kai Hunter 

366
00:15:52,484 --> 00:15:54,596
because this is her area of expertise 

367
00:15:54,596 --> 00:15:56,651
and then James johnson to talk about 

368
00:15:56,651 --> 00:15:58,940
prevention . Thank you . Thank you so 

369
00:15:58,940 --> 00:16:01,051
much , sir for this question . You as 

370
00:16:01,051 --> 00:16:03,730
as you noted , online harassment is a 

371
00:16:03,740 --> 00:16:06,770
huge problem and one of the biggest 

372
00:16:06,770 --> 00:16:08,881
findings from the commission and it's 

373
00:16:08,881 --> 00:16:11,120
something that you are all well aware 

374
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,453
of from your oversight hearings as well , 

375
00:16:13,453 --> 00:16:15,590
is that there is a huge gulf between 

376
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:18,660
what the most senior leaders in our 

377
00:16:18,660 --> 00:16:21,350
military no one have experienced in the 

378
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:24,210
online community and what our junior , 

379
00:16:24,210 --> 00:16:26,154
especially junior enlisted service 

380
00:16:26,154 --> 00:16:28,099
members know and experience in the 

381
00:16:28,099 --> 00:16:30,300
online community . Um primarily with 

382
00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:32,467
the idea of just being digital natives 

383
00:16:32,467 --> 00:16:34,760
to our junior enlisted service members 

384
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,700
are junior young officers . What 

385
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:40,470
happens in the online world is real and 

386
00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:43,030
it has just a big impact on them is 

387
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:45,070
what happens in face to face 

388
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,830
interactions . So one of the first 

389
00:16:47,830 --> 00:16:50,052
things that needed , and this goes back 

390
00:16:50,052 --> 00:16:52,052
to the ideas of surveys and climate 

391
00:16:52,052 --> 00:16:54,350
surveys , is deliberate efforts and 

392
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,090
actually tracking the prevalence of 

393
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:59,267
online harassment . We know that there 

394
00:16:59,267 --> 00:17:01,350
is a continuum and that often what 

395
00:17:01,350 --> 00:17:03,630
starts as harassment on the in the 

396
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,400
online world extends into the physical 

397
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,233
world , especially when we start 

398
00:17:08,233 --> 00:17:10,400
talking about cyber stalking . We know 

399
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,622
from the one survey that's been done of 

400
00:17:12,622 --> 00:17:15,750
this , 30% of service members who had 

401
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:17,861
been harassed said it was online . So 

402
00:17:17,861 --> 00:17:20,100
this is this is real . So one is first 

403
00:17:20,110 --> 00:17:21,999
being deliberate and getting that 

404
00:17:21,999 --> 00:17:24,110
information out there . The knicks is 

405
00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:25,888
when we think about command and 

406
00:17:25,888 --> 00:17:28,200
preparing people for command as part of 

407
00:17:28,210 --> 00:17:30,930
our overall understanding of that care 

408
00:17:30,930 --> 00:17:33,041
and welfare for our service members . 

409
00:17:33,041 --> 00:17:35,640
We need to also extend that to what 

410
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,170
happens online . We talk a lot about 

411
00:17:38,180 --> 00:17:40,760
what it is to take care of our people 

412
00:17:40,770 --> 00:17:43,070
in the physical space . That training 

413
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:45,910
needs to extend into the the online 

414
00:17:45,910 --> 00:17:47,910
space , as well as when we start to 

415
00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:50,270
look at social media policies that are 

416
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,400
out there . This isn't just about 

417
00:17:52,410 --> 00:17:54,354
putting out classified information 

418
00:17:54,354 --> 00:17:56,521
about troop movements , which is where 

419
00:17:56,521 --> 00:17:58,940
a big focus is , but is what do those 

420
00:17:58,950 --> 00:18:00,894
interactions that are part of good 

421
00:18:00,894 --> 00:18:02,980
order and discipline ? Mean , I mean 

422
00:18:02,980 --> 00:18:05,091
stories that we got from focus groups 

423
00:18:05,091 --> 00:18:07,730
on this where , you know , Junior E two 

424
00:18:07,730 --> 00:18:10,000
E three's , we're getting friended or 

425
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,260
followed on facebook by their staff 

426
00:18:12,260 --> 00:18:14,316
sergeants and gun ease and then they 

427
00:18:14,316 --> 00:18:16,427
start to get confused as to what's in 

428
00:18:16,427 --> 00:18:18,649
order when they comment on on something 

429
00:18:18,649 --> 00:18:20,538
essentially , what are they being 

430
00:18:20,538 --> 00:18:22,649
directed to do versus what is sort of 

431
00:18:22,649 --> 00:18:24,816
friendly online banter . How that then 

432
00:18:24,816 --> 00:18:26,982
extended into how they were treated in 

433
00:18:26,982 --> 00:18:29,038
their workplace and isolated for not 

434
00:18:29,038 --> 00:18:31,093
liking the right type of pictures or 

435
00:18:31,093 --> 00:18:33,149
being judged for what they wore when 

436
00:18:33,149 --> 00:18:35,204
they were on vacation when they come 

437
00:18:35,204 --> 00:18:37,427
back to work . So that needs to be part 

438
00:18:37,427 --> 00:18:39,649
of two and we look at what it is , it's 

439
00:18:39,649 --> 00:18:41,871
a commander to maintain that good order 

440
00:18:41,871 --> 00:18:43,982
and discipline . We really need to be 

441
00:18:43,982 --> 00:18:43,980
thinking about the cyber world too and 

442
00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:46,810
how social media plays into those day 

443
00:18:46,810 --> 00:18:49,150
to day interactions . And I'll turn it 

444
00:18:49,150 --> 00:18:51,430
over now to James to talk about the 

445
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:54,640
specific prevention side of it . Thank 

446
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,307
you . Thanks for the question 

447
00:18:56,307 --> 00:18:58,470
congressman . I think for prevention 

448
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,610
for the line of effort that I was 

449
00:19:00,610 --> 00:19:02,760
fortunate to work with de bowery from 

450
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,927
the C . D . C . And Mr Neil Irvin from 

451
00:19:04,927 --> 00:19:07,620
men can stop rape . What we would tell 

452
00:19:07,620 --> 00:19:09,842
you is that there are a couple of touch 

453
00:19:09,842 --> 00:19:13,540
points . Uh one leadership and we found 

454
00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:16,150
a void in the ability for leaders to 

455
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:18,261
really lead in prevention . So that's 

456
00:19:18,261 --> 00:19:20,039
the first one and it was really 

457
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:21,990
leadership at every level . So um 

458
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,490
oftentimes , uh when we say leadership , 

459
00:19:24,490 --> 00:19:26,657
somebody might think about a leader at 

460
00:19:26,657 --> 00:19:28,480
installation level . You know , 

461
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,424
commander , we're talking at every 

462
00:19:30,424 --> 00:19:32,647
level from the Secretary of defense all 

463
00:19:32,647 --> 00:19:34,980
the way down to that first line , first , 

464
00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:38,350
the line supervisor , N . C . O . And 

465
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:40,360
and where they're engaging with the 

466
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,760
members who might be engaged in this 

467
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,840
kind of activity and actually giving 

468
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,040
them the competencies to engage with 

469
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,360
them with those members in a way that 

470
00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:52,660
builds a protective environment and 

471
00:19:52,660 --> 00:19:54,882
lowers the risk factors . So that's one 

472
00:19:54,882 --> 00:19:56,993
touch point I would say is leadership 

473
00:19:56,993 --> 00:19:59,216
and developing the competencies and our 

474
00:19:59,216 --> 00:20:01,280
leaders that don't exist today as we 

475
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,320
engaged with uh in every engagement 

476
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,340
that this line of effort had and we 

477
00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:08,451
engage with the strategic operational 

478
00:20:08,451 --> 00:20:10,810
tactical level . We talked with four 

479
00:20:10,810 --> 00:20:14,110
star level down to the newest members 

480
00:20:14,110 --> 00:20:16,110
who had just been you know in their 

481
00:20:16,110 --> 00:20:18,520
units for maybe a year or two . And in 

482
00:20:18,530 --> 00:20:20,570
every engagement they all recognize 

483
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:22,737
leaders want to lead . They don't know 

484
00:20:22,737 --> 00:20:25,060
how to lead in prevention and it's 

485
00:20:25,060 --> 00:20:27,227
because they don't have those specific 

486
00:20:27,227 --> 00:20:29,449
competencies . That's one touch point . 

487
00:20:29,449 --> 00:20:31,560
The other touch point , I would say , 

488
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,671
is research and we found there's this 

489
00:20:33,671 --> 00:20:35,393
dearth in the kind of research 

490
00:20:35,393 --> 00:20:37,504
capability that the department really 

491
00:20:37,504 --> 00:20:39,449
needs to be able to have to attack 

492
00:20:39,449 --> 00:20:41,227
these kinds of issues in a very 

493
00:20:41,227 --> 00:20:44,210
comprehensive way . Today . It's a 

494
00:20:44,220 --> 00:20:46,220
little bit of a pickup game when it 

495
00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:49,270
comes to um exploring an agenda driven 

496
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,070
research agenda . Um that would get 

497
00:20:53,070 --> 00:20:55,070
after something like you're talking 

498
00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:57,181
about . And and so I think that's one 

499
00:20:57,181 --> 00:20:59,403
the other . One other touch point would 

500
00:20:59,403 --> 00:21:02,980
be uh actual strategies . So in the 

501
00:21:02,980 --> 00:21:04,930
report , we talk about community 

502
00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:06,986
focused interventions and this would 

503
00:21:06,986 --> 00:21:08,986
fall into kind of promoting healthy 

504
00:21:08,986 --> 00:21:11,420
social norms . And and so I would say 

505
00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:13,790
it would be in that realm with leaders 

506
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,350
who have the competencies and with the 

507
00:21:16,350 --> 00:21:18,450
research that tells you exactly what 

508
00:21:18,450 --> 00:21:20,730
works and what doesn't work uh and then 

509
00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:23,630
using interventions appropriately . I 

510
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:25,630
think that's that's a place that we 

511
00:21:25,630 --> 00:21:27,700
will find more success . And then in 

512
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:29,644
the short period of time I have Mr 

513
00:21:29,644 --> 00:21:31,756
Rosenthal , I believe you mentioned a 

514
00:21:31,756 --> 00:21:33,978
number of comorbidities in your opening 

515
00:21:33,978 --> 00:21:36,060
statements on sexual assault and um 

516
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:38,292
suicide . And I just be curious when it 

517
00:21:38,292 --> 00:21:40,459
comes to that question . How do we get 

518
00:21:40,459 --> 00:21:42,570
after these comorbidities ? So we can 

519
00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:44,403
really make a lasting change for 

520
00:21:44,403 --> 00:21:46,626
service members and their families ? We 

521
00:21:46,626 --> 00:21:48,681
are critical issues . One is realize 

522
00:21:48,681 --> 00:21:50,792
the difference . Professionalized the 

523
00:21:50,792 --> 00:21:52,737
victim advocacy work force largely 

524
00:21:52,737 --> 00:21:54,848
eliminate , eliminate collateral duty 

525
00:21:54,848 --> 00:21:56,959
victim advocates and expand access to 

526
00:21:56,959 --> 00:21:59,292
behavioral health care . So for example , 

527
00:21:59,292 --> 00:22:02,070
Active Duty Guard and Reserve Members 

528
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:04,750
can , by federal law , seek behavioral 

529
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,850
health services through the V . A . But 

530
00:22:08,020 --> 00:22:10,298
in current implementation at the D . O . 

531
00:22:10,298 --> 00:22:12,464
D . Level , the number of providers is 

532
00:22:12,464 --> 00:22:14,750
limited to 300 providers when there's 

533
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:17,560
actually 1000 V . A . Facilities that 

534
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,100
could receive those referrals or not . 

535
00:22:20,110 --> 00:22:23,630
The law allows for victims to seek that 

536
00:22:23,630 --> 00:22:25,640
care even without a referral and to 

537
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,862
receive it confidentially . Thank you . 

538
00:22:27,940 --> 00:22:31,850
Beck Chairman yields back dr Henry when 

539
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:34,780
you were talking about the confusion 

540
00:22:34,780 --> 00:22:38,730
that young soldiers have . I remember a 

541
00:22:38,740 --> 00:22:41,950
young airman at lackland Air Force Base 

542
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,950
who when her military training 

543
00:22:43,950 --> 00:22:46,960
instructor told her to meet him in the 

544
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:50,870
um storage room , she says 

545
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,991
there was no question mark at the end 

546
00:22:52,991 --> 00:22:55,910
of that sentence that stayed with me 

547
00:22:55,910 --> 00:22:57,790
all these years . Um Now , the 

548
00:22:57,790 --> 00:22:59,901
gentleman from New Jersey , Mr Kim is 

549
00:22:59,901 --> 00:23:02,730
recognized for five minutes . Thank you . 

550
00:23:02,740 --> 00:23:04,990
Thank you . Chairwoman . I wanted to 

551
00:23:04,990 --> 00:23:07,020
just pick up on a thread that I had 

552
00:23:07,020 --> 00:23:09,760
raised before with the Deputy secretary . 

553
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,650
I had asked her about the I . R . C . 

554
00:23:12,650 --> 00:23:14,980
Recommendations talking about the 

555
00:23:14,980 --> 00:23:17,570
special victims crimes and referring 

556
00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:19,570
certain alleged crimes to a special 

557
00:23:19,570 --> 00:23:22,310
victims prosecutor . Um you know , and 

558
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,487
our understanding of this is that this 

559
00:23:24,487 --> 00:23:26,770
would include sexual assault , but also 

560
00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:29,002
other crimes based on relationships and 

561
00:23:29,002 --> 00:23:31,169
vulnerability of the victim . Domestic 

562
00:23:31,169 --> 00:23:33,447
abuse , child abuse crimes are raising . 

563
00:23:33,447 --> 00:23:35,391
Uh , I wanted to just got to get a 

564
00:23:35,391 --> 00:23:37,610
better sense from for the irises 

565
00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:40,260
rationale and defining these categories 

566
00:23:40,260 --> 00:23:42,427
in the way that they did . So I wanted 

567
00:23:42,427 --> 00:23:44,593
to just kind of here a little bit more 

568
00:23:44,593 --> 00:23:46,816
from you about how that was constructed 

569
00:23:46,816 --> 00:23:49,038
and why you felt like that was the best 

570
00:23:49,038 --> 00:23:52,950
way to frame these buckets . Thank you , 

571
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:56,320
sir . The IRC found that these crimes 

572
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,840
tend to be interpersonal in nature and 

573
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,780
that victims who have to navigate 

574
00:24:01,790 --> 00:24:03,940
through the military justice process 

575
00:24:03,950 --> 00:24:06,420
often experienced re traumatization 

576
00:24:06,430 --> 00:24:08,670
because of their experience is going 

577
00:24:08,670 --> 00:24:11,340
through that process . The I . R . C . 

578
00:24:11,340 --> 00:24:14,170
Came up with three categories that 

579
00:24:14,180 --> 00:24:16,880
compromise . Um , excuse me , comprise 

580
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,250
the special victims um scheme and the 

581
00:24:20,250 --> 00:24:22,500
first one is very plain on its face , 

582
00:24:22,510 --> 00:24:25,310
its those categories that of crimes 

583
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,800
that are inherently special victims 

584
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,310
crime . So rape , sexual assault , et 

585
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,670
cetera . The second was based on the 

586
00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:34,337
trait of the victim , or more 

587
00:24:34,337 --> 00:24:36,503
importantly the perceived trait of the 

588
00:24:36,503 --> 00:24:38,726
victim and why those particular victims 

589
00:24:38,726 --> 00:24:40,640
might be targeted by a certain 

590
00:24:40,650 --> 00:24:42,770
perpetrator . So it may be their 

591
00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:45,220
perception that they are gay or it may 

592
00:24:45,220 --> 00:24:47,940
be their perception , um , you know , 

593
00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:50,051
that they are of a certain religion . 

594
00:24:50,051 --> 00:24:52,280
The third category that the IRC 

595
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,660
identified was based on the motivation 

596
00:24:55,740 --> 00:24:59,140
of the offender and we arrived at and 

597
00:24:59,140 --> 00:25:01,700
landed on hazing and bullying as well , 

598
00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:03,867
which we know is very prevalent in the 

599
00:25:03,867 --> 00:25:07,670
military . So based on what we 

600
00:25:07,670 --> 00:25:11,210
heard from hundreds of Uh 

601
00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:13,280
survivors , hundreds of military 

602
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,430
justice practitioners and academics 

603
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,607
with whom we spoke and interacted over 

604
00:25:17,607 --> 00:25:20,500
the course of 90 days as an IRC , we 

605
00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:23,170
landed on these three categories that 

606
00:25:23,170 --> 00:25:26,100
comprise the special victims context . 

607
00:25:26,110 --> 00:25:28,960
Again mainly because of the 

608
00:25:28,970 --> 00:25:31,250
interpersonal nature of these crimes 

609
00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:33,830
and the penchant for victims to be re 

610
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:35,663
traumatized through the military 

611
00:25:35,663 --> 00:25:38,770
justice process . Thank you . That's 

612
00:25:38,770 --> 00:25:41,210
helpful that I that was helpful to hear 

613
00:25:41,210 --> 00:25:43,210
both in terms of how you're framing 

614
00:25:43,210 --> 00:25:45,543
when it comes to the victims . But also , 

615
00:25:45,543 --> 00:25:47,654
as you said , there was an element in 

616
00:25:47,654 --> 00:25:47,300
terms of the offender and the 

617
00:25:47,310 --> 00:25:49,430
perpetrator . And you know , I think 

618
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,400
for when I kind of look at the 

619
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,560
situations when it comes to sexual 

620
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,560
assault prevention , you know for a 

621
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,727
long time there's been so much focused 

622
00:25:57,727 --> 00:26:00,300
on the victim rightfully so . But and 

623
00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:02,522
one of the most interesting findings in 

624
00:26:02,522 --> 00:26:04,633
the R . C . Report is just how little 

625
00:26:04,633 --> 00:26:06,356
we understand about the actual 

626
00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:08,356
perpetrators . So I guess I guess I 

627
00:26:08,356 --> 00:26:10,300
wanted to just follow up with this 

628
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:12,189
question there about what kind of 

629
00:26:12,189 --> 00:26:14,356
resources do you think we need to have 

630
00:26:14,356 --> 00:26:16,578
Better understand and understand how to 

631
00:26:16,578 --> 00:26:18,910
identify perpetrators . Um and how can 

632
00:26:18,910 --> 00:26:21,960
we screen for these signs before we 

633
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,570
before the perpetrators were to take 

634
00:26:25,570 --> 00:26:27,292
actions . How are we trying to 

635
00:26:27,292 --> 00:26:29,348
understand how to be able to do that 

636
00:26:29,348 --> 00:26:31,459
And then also be able to find ways to 

637
00:26:31,459 --> 00:26:33,681
retrain and redirect this behavior . So 

638
00:26:33,681 --> 00:26:35,848
I wanted to just get a little bit more 

639
00:26:35,848 --> 00:26:37,959
of a sense of them James . This is an 

640
00:26:37,959 --> 00:26:40,181
area that the prevention line of effort 

641
00:26:40,181 --> 00:26:42,237
looked at very closely . Thank you . 

642
00:26:42,237 --> 00:26:44,403
Thank you for the question . It really 

643
00:26:44,403 --> 00:26:46,514
does . Uh A lot of it falls into that 

644
00:26:46,514 --> 00:26:49,630
research recommendation uh that we made 

645
00:26:49,630 --> 00:26:52,680
on the compatibility assessment and we 

646
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,300
recognize that today the department 

647
00:26:55,310 --> 00:26:58,960
assumes risk because they don't know 

648
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,818
you know what the attitudes and 

649
00:27:00,818 --> 00:27:02,818
behaviors are for those people that 

650
00:27:02,818 --> 00:27:04,929
they're recruiting and assessing into 

651
00:27:04,929 --> 00:27:07,170
the military . And so , um one of the 

652
00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:09,960
services has developed a compatibility 

653
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,140
assessment that we recommended the 

654
00:27:13,150 --> 00:27:15,920
secretary approved for operational 

655
00:27:15,930 --> 00:27:19,810
testing within the maps and to start 

656
00:27:19,810 --> 00:27:22,890
to at least uh learn more about the 

657
00:27:22,890 --> 00:27:25,320
attitudes and behaviors of individuals 

658
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,431
they're assessing and that that would 

659
00:27:27,431 --> 00:27:30,050
inform potential interventions that 

660
00:27:30,050 --> 00:27:32,720
could kind of run the gambit of of what 

661
00:27:32,730 --> 00:27:34,841
you know , the outcomes could be from 

662
00:27:34,841 --> 00:27:36,952
those interventions , but it would be 

663
00:27:36,952 --> 00:27:39,119
the starting point . Thank you . Thank 

664
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,174
you . Chairwoman , I go back . Thank 

665
00:27:41,174 --> 00:27:43,341
you . The gentleman yields back , Miss 

666
00:27:43,341 --> 00:27:47,340
Mclean from Missouri Michigan has 

667
00:27:47,340 --> 00:27:49,780
recognized for five minutes . Thank you 

668
00:27:49,780 --> 00:27:51,891
Madam Chair . And I want to thank all 

669
00:27:51,891 --> 00:27:54,380
the witnesses for being here today as a 

670
00:27:54,380 --> 00:27:56,780
freshman member of congress and 

671
00:27:56,790 --> 00:27:58,790
obviously a freshman member on this 

672
00:27:58,790 --> 00:28:01,700
committee . It saddens me to talk about 

673
00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:04,210
what we're talking about today and to 

674
00:28:04,210 --> 00:28:06,610
know that our brave men and women in 

675
00:28:06,610 --> 00:28:09,760
the military are experiencing this . Um , 

676
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,080
it's unacceptable and quite frankly , 

677
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,780
it's embarrassing . Um , so I applaud 

678
00:28:15,790 --> 00:28:18,270
everyone in their efforts to try and 

679
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,391
figure out the root cause and and fix 

680
00:28:20,391 --> 00:28:24,300
it in layman's terms . What I'm 

681
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:27,130
trying to understand is the actual 

682
00:28:27,140 --> 00:28:30,780
process . So if we take it out 

683
00:28:30,780 --> 00:28:33,920
of the commanders or the military's 

684
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,780
hands , would it look exactly like it 

685
00:28:36,780 --> 00:28:39,610
would look as if you were civilian ? So 

686
00:28:39,610 --> 00:28:42,460
I guess my question simply is , um , 

687
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,180
can you explain what the process would 

688
00:28:46,190 --> 00:28:48,360
look like in layman's terms ? 

689
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,460
Yes . So , uh , 

690
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,470
even if you took the decision to prefer 

691
00:28:58,470 --> 00:29:01,610
that is indict or refer , that is to 

692
00:29:01,610 --> 00:29:04,670
send that indictment to trial out of 

693
00:29:04,670 --> 00:29:07,440
the hands of commanders and place that 

694
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,630
decision squarely in the hands of 

695
00:29:09,630 --> 00:29:12,110
military lawyers . The system will 

696
00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:14,980
still look somewhat different from the 

697
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:16,900
civilian system because there are 

698
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:20,010
certain aspects of military justice 

699
00:29:20,020 --> 00:29:22,820
that are just inherently different than 

700
00:29:22,830 --> 00:29:25,090
the civilian system of justice . For 

701
00:29:25,090 --> 00:29:27,770
example , where I practice in federal 

702
00:29:27,770 --> 00:29:30,130
district Court in the Western district 

703
00:29:30,130 --> 00:29:33,790
of new york , I take my cases before a 

704
00:29:33,790 --> 00:29:36,510
grand jury , the grand jury decides by 

705
00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:39,140
vote whether I have a bill and whether 

706
00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:41,510
that case will actually be indicted . 

707
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,360
There's no equal um procedure 

708
00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:47,370
in the military , there is no grand 

709
00:29:47,370 --> 00:29:50,050
jury mechanism in military justice . So 

710
00:29:50,050 --> 00:29:51,939
I just say that as a preface that 

711
00:29:51,939 --> 00:29:54,161
they're going to be certain things that 

712
00:29:54,161 --> 00:29:56,050
still will not make them directly 

713
00:29:56,050 --> 00:29:59,660
analogous . So to answer your question , 

714
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,940
all that is going to happen by virtue 

715
00:30:03,940 --> 00:30:07,050
of our recommendation that the decision 

716
00:30:07,050 --> 00:30:10,790
to prefer that is indict or refer , 

717
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,660
that is to send charges to a general or 

718
00:30:13,660 --> 00:30:16,340
special court martial . Is that a 

719
00:30:16,350 --> 00:30:19,170
military lawyer will be making those 

720
00:30:19,170 --> 00:30:21,390
decisions in the sexual harassment and 

721
00:30:21,390 --> 00:30:25,070
sexual assault context versus a 

722
00:30:25,070 --> 00:30:27,660
military commander . Now , to be fair , 

723
00:30:27,670 --> 00:30:29,892
a military commander just does not make 

724
00:30:29,892 --> 00:30:31,948
this decision in a vacuum . Military 

725
00:30:31,948 --> 00:30:35,380
commander is advised by senior staff 

726
00:30:35,380 --> 00:30:37,602
judge advocates . However , the I . R . 

727
00:30:37,602 --> 00:30:39,840
C . S . Concern was that the senior 

728
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,970
staff judge advocates are so far 

729
00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:45,750
removed from the practice of trial law 

730
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,400
that their advice to the convening 

731
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,590
authority in a very short period of 

732
00:30:50,590 --> 00:30:52,680
time when they sit need to knee with 

733
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,902
that convening authority to determine . 

734
00:30:54,940 --> 00:30:57,190
Uh , one of several military justice 

735
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:59,190
matters does not do that particular 

736
00:30:59,190 --> 00:31:01,357
case justice . So I think I understand 

737
00:31:01,357 --> 00:31:05,050
that piece that uh the lawyer would 

738
00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:08,960
um indict , so to speak to to use your 

739
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,900
term . But there's also another , uh if 

740
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:14,011
I heard you correctly and I just want 

741
00:31:14,011 --> 00:31:15,900
to make sure I did . There's also 

742
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:18,122
another piece that we need to make sure 

743
00:31:18,122 --> 00:31:20,011
that we're focusing on , which is 

744
00:31:20,011 --> 00:31:22,178
there's has to be after due process of 

745
00:31:22,178 --> 00:31:23,900
course , but there has to be a 

746
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:26,830
consequence to the action , right ? So 

747
00:31:26,830 --> 00:31:28,997
I know you have the preventative end , 

748
00:31:28,997 --> 00:31:31,520
which it sounds like we've we're trying 

749
00:31:31,530 --> 00:31:33,890
at least to put things in place . Um , 

750
00:31:33,890 --> 00:31:35,946
and it looks like we're on the right 

751
00:31:35,946 --> 00:31:38,168
path . It looks like we're trying to do 

752
00:31:38,168 --> 00:31:40,930
the indictment and so to speak . What 

753
00:31:40,930 --> 00:31:44,400
are we doing for the consequence end ? 

754
00:31:44,410 --> 00:31:46,577
Because it seems like that peace might 

755
00:31:46,577 --> 00:31:49,290
be missing a little bit as well . And I 

756
00:31:49,290 --> 00:31:51,401
don't know if I heard you correctly , 

757
00:31:51,401 --> 00:31:53,568
but I didn't I didn't hear to talk , I 

758
00:31:53,568 --> 00:31:55,846
didn't hear the talk of the , you know , 

759
00:31:55,846 --> 00:31:58,190
the consequence end . So there are two , 

760
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,311
there are two avenues of approach and 

761
00:32:00,311 --> 00:32:02,089
the military . The first is the 

762
00:32:02,089 --> 00:32:04,311
judicial approach and the second is the 

763
00:32:04,311 --> 00:32:07,050
non judicial approach both of both 

764
00:32:07,050 --> 00:32:09,272
approaches , which currently are in the 

765
00:32:09,272 --> 00:32:11,328
hands of military commanders Today . 

766
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,900
Our recommendation is that the judicial 

767
00:32:14,010 --> 00:32:16,780
judicial approach in sexual harassment 

768
00:32:16,780 --> 00:32:19,260
and sexual assault cases be taken away 

769
00:32:19,260 --> 00:32:21,260
from commanders and placed into the 

770
00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:23,750
hands of military lawyers , independent 

771
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,450
military lawyers , so on the 

772
00:32:25,450 --> 00:32:28,000
consequence and as well so on the 

773
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,170
consequence and in the judicial sector , 

774
00:32:31,780 --> 00:32:35,330
the punishment if there is a conviction 

775
00:32:35,340 --> 00:32:38,950
at court martial would be meted out by 

776
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,960
either a military judge or military 

777
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,071
court martial panel members . So with 

778
00:32:43,071 --> 00:32:46,390
that , is that changing uh that that 

779
00:32:46,390 --> 00:32:48,112
would not change that . We did 

780
00:32:48,112 --> 00:32:50,334
recommend , we do make a recommendation 

781
00:32:50,334 --> 00:32:53,740
that uh military judges alone 

782
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:56,420
decide the punishment phase . Um and we 

783
00:32:56,420 --> 00:32:58,531
have detailed reasons for that in our 

784
00:32:58,531 --> 00:33:02,460
report . But the second uh sector , if 

785
00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:04,238
you will , that is non judicial 

786
00:33:04,238 --> 00:33:06,970
punishment , uh , will under the IRC 

787
00:33:06,970 --> 00:33:08,950
construct remain in the hands of 

788
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:11,080
commanders . And as a commission , we 

789
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,740
found that this is very important , 

790
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:16,060
especially in the prevention and 

791
00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:19,380
response context . Because the IRC 

792
00:33:19,380 --> 00:33:21,491
wants commanders to remain involved . 

793
00:33:21,491 --> 00:33:24,920
We want commanders to be involved in 

794
00:33:24,930 --> 00:33:27,940
this system so that their troops that 

795
00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:30,280
they lead can see , um , that they have 

796
00:33:30,290 --> 00:33:32,457
skin in the game that they , that they 

797
00:33:32,457 --> 00:33:35,500
care . The non judicial 

798
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,880
punishment sector , if you will , for 

799
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,890
lack of better term also has punishment 

800
00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:44,230
that can be attached to it to , um , 

801
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,407
including loss of rank and loss of pay 

802
00:33:46,407 --> 00:33:48,850
and restriction and those sorts of 

803
00:33:48,850 --> 00:33:50,850
things . The punishments of the non 

804
00:33:50,850 --> 00:33:54,770
judicial end are not as severe as 

805
00:33:54,780 --> 00:33:57,850
a punishment at a court martial . So 

806
00:33:57,860 --> 00:34:00,390
currently the commander has two 

807
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,730
different avenues have approached 

808
00:34:02,730 --> 00:34:04,897
judicial and non judicial punishment , 

809
00:34:04,897 --> 00:34:07,040
both of which have punishment 

810
00:34:07,050 --> 00:34:10,000
mechanisms in place . I'm out of time . 

811
00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:12,177
I appreciate your patience . Thank you 

812
00:34:12,177 --> 00:34:14,590
very much . Of course it's an important 

813
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,900
topic . I think it's important to point 

814
00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:19,170
out that if they go to court martial 

815
00:34:19,170 --> 00:34:21,830
and are convicted , um they can be 

816
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,770
jailed , they can be separated from the 

817
00:34:24,770 --> 00:34:26,992
military , they can lose rank . There's 

818
00:34:26,992 --> 00:34:29,840
a whole series of actions that that can 

819
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,062
take place one of the areas and I don't 

820
00:34:32,062 --> 00:34:33,840
know if you looked at it that I 

821
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,007
continue to be concerned about is that 

822
00:34:36,007 --> 00:34:38,062
many of these individuals are sexual 

823
00:34:38,062 --> 00:34:41,460
predators and should then beyond the 

824
00:34:41,540 --> 00:34:45,340
registry , civilian offender 

825
00:34:45,340 --> 00:34:47,229
registries and they are not being 

826
00:34:47,229 --> 00:34:49,910
communicated by the military um to that 

827
00:34:49,910 --> 00:34:52,240
registry . And so they then go out of 

828
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:53,907
the military and then conduct 

829
00:34:53,907 --> 00:34:56,130
themselves in a similar fashion . So I 

830
00:34:56,130 --> 00:34:58,186
don't think you address that in your 

831
00:34:58,186 --> 00:35:00,241
report , did you ? We didn't address 

832
00:35:00,241 --> 00:35:02,463
that specific issue . But we did note a 

833
00:35:02,463 --> 00:35:04,990
low number of registrants on the sexual 

834
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,160
offense registry . And I , one of the 

835
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,160
other pieces that's important about 

836
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,993
what Megan said is that with our 

837
00:35:10,993 --> 00:35:13,660
specialized special victims prosecutor , 

838
00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:15,610
well trained Kadre . Without these 

839
00:35:15,610 --> 00:35:18,240
constant rotations , we anticipate that 

840
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,260
over time we will see increased 

841
00:35:20,260 --> 00:35:22,350
convictions leading to greater 

842
00:35:22,350 --> 00:35:24,890
accountability . There is a problem in 

843
00:35:24,890 --> 00:35:27,112
the military justice system . It's been 

844
00:35:27,112 --> 00:35:28,890
called the Achilles heel of the 

845
00:35:28,890 --> 00:35:31,001
military justice system . And that is 

846
00:35:31,001 --> 00:35:33,410
inexperienced , although well intended 

847
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,200
prosecutors who don't have the real 

848
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,811
ability to try these cases . 

849
00:35:37,811 --> 00:35:41,270
Effectively . The general woman from 

850
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:43,326
texas Miss escobar is recognized for 

851
00:35:43,326 --> 00:35:45,492
five minutes . Thank you Madam Chair . 

852
00:35:45,492 --> 00:35:47,750
And I am so grateful to all of you for 

853
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:50,200
your work , your recommendations , um , 

854
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,780
and for your advocacy . Uh , you 

855
00:35:52,780 --> 00:35:56,640
provided us such important , critical 

856
00:35:56,650 --> 00:35:59,880
information and I'm very grateful . I 

857
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,870
represent el paso texas and Fort Bliss 

858
00:36:03,130 --> 00:36:05,350
is the military installation one of 

859
00:36:05,350 --> 00:36:09,040
those that has been identified uh 

860
00:36:09,050 --> 00:36:12,910
for its rate of of women who are 

861
00:36:12,910 --> 00:36:16,260
vulnerable to or victims rather who are 

862
00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:18,570
vulnerable to to sexual assault , 

863
00:36:18,570 --> 00:36:20,792
sexual harassment . Um , you know , one 

864
00:36:20,792 --> 00:36:23,090
of the things that many of the lessons 

865
00:36:23,090 --> 00:36:26,200
that I have learned have have come from 

866
00:36:26,210 --> 00:36:28,800
mostly women who have told me stories 

867
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,750
or cases that I have learned about 

868
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,649
through Fort Bliss through what's 

869
00:36:33,649 --> 00:36:36,750
happened at Fort Bliss . In one case , 

870
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,160
the perpetrator had 

871
00:36:41,630 --> 00:36:45,480
assaulted multiple women before there 

872
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,400
was a soldier who came forward and 

873
00:36:49,410 --> 00:36:52,710
and filed a complaint , and we know 

874
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:56,310
that perpetrators who harass 

875
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,710
frequently harass multiple people , 

876
00:36:59,710 --> 00:37:02,650
that it's not a one time offense until 

877
00:37:02,650 --> 00:37:06,270
they are finally held accountable . And 

878
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,280
um , you know , these are these are 

879
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,100
people who uh display a pattern and 

880
00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:15,350
and the pattern generally doesn't stop . 

881
00:37:15,730 --> 00:37:17,730
And one of the things that that I'm 

882
00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:19,508
wondering , especially after Mr 

883
00:37:19,508 --> 00:37:21,619
Representative kim noted that there's 

884
00:37:21,619 --> 00:37:23,230
so little that we know about 

885
00:37:23,230 --> 00:37:25,860
perpetrators . I've been very curious 

886
00:37:25,870 --> 00:37:29,640
about repeat offenders . And um 

887
00:37:29,650 --> 00:37:31,706
you know , they're the way that they 

888
00:37:31,706 --> 00:37:33,594
are able to operate until they're 

889
00:37:33,594 --> 00:37:35,840
finally held accountable . Did you all 

890
00:37:35,850 --> 00:37:38,320
at all study or look into that to 

891
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,410
repeat offenses ? We recommend that the 

892
00:37:41,410 --> 00:37:43,730
catch program be expanded . So this is 

893
00:37:43,730 --> 00:37:46,250
where somebody who has not made a 

894
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:50,540
unrestricted report is able to uh note 

895
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:52,550
the name of the offender and see if 

896
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:55,060
there's a match with other entries in 

897
00:37:55,060 --> 00:37:57,060
that same system . And we recommend 

898
00:37:57,060 --> 00:37:59,340
that this system be expanded . So that 

899
00:37:59,340 --> 00:38:01,396
includes sexual harassment , because 

900
00:38:01,396 --> 00:38:03,860
the serial sexual harassers can also be 

901
00:38:03,870 --> 00:38:07,020
your cereal assaulters . And also that 

902
00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:09,020
we make a number of improvements so 

903
00:38:09,020 --> 00:38:11,020
that victims can more readily enter 

904
00:38:11,020 --> 00:38:13,076
information into that system . So we 

905
00:38:13,076 --> 00:38:15,131
felt that that was one way to get to 

906
00:38:15,131 --> 00:38:18,840
this issue of serial offenders . Great , 

907
00:38:18,850 --> 00:38:22,210
thank you . And , and um , MS Rosenthal , 

908
00:38:22,210 --> 00:38:24,543
you mentioned earlier and it just , and , 

909
00:38:24,543 --> 00:38:26,599
and it's in the report , it's , it's 

910
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:28,599
incredibly heartbreaking , but that 

911
00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:31,930
women regretted reporting . 

912
00:38:31,940 --> 00:38:35,430
Can you expand a little bit more on 

913
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,890
why women regret and victims not just 

914
00:38:38,890 --> 00:38:40,612
women was run as well , regret 

915
00:38:40,612 --> 00:38:42,668
reporting because they're treated so 

916
00:38:42,668 --> 00:38:44,650
poorly when they do so . They're 

917
00:38:44,650 --> 00:38:46,706
bullied or ostracized by their peers 

918
00:38:46,706 --> 00:38:48,761
and the commanders don't step in and 

919
00:38:48,761 --> 00:38:50,594
take action to prevent that from 

920
00:38:50,594 --> 00:38:52,730
happening . Even when the , uh , when 

921
00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:54,674
they're not being bullied by their 

922
00:38:54,674 --> 00:38:56,397
commander . Specifically , the 

923
00:38:56,397 --> 00:38:58,230
commanders are not taking action 

924
00:38:58,230 --> 00:39:00,174
against that pattern . They're not 

925
00:39:00,174 --> 00:39:02,230
treated with the kind of dignity and 

926
00:39:02,230 --> 00:39:04,063
respect that we would think they 

927
00:39:04,063 --> 00:39:06,286
deserve . They're not given time off to 

928
00:39:06,286 --> 00:39:08,230
go to their medical or their legal 

929
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:10,341
appointments and they're not believed 

930
00:39:10,341 --> 00:39:12,508
and things are said to them by command 

931
00:39:12,508 --> 00:39:14,674
and by peers that they're lying , that 

932
00:39:14,674 --> 00:39:17,008
they're trying to ruin someone's career . 

933
00:39:17,008 --> 00:39:19,008
I cannot tell you how many times we 

934
00:39:19,008 --> 00:39:20,952
heard that you're out to hurt this 

935
00:39:20,952 --> 00:39:23,119
person . There's this great myth among 

936
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:25,120
at all levels of the service , that 

937
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,120
victims are not telling the truth , 

938
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,009
that they have some other kind of 

939
00:39:29,009 --> 00:39:31,009
agenda . And of course , we did not 

940
00:39:31,009 --> 00:39:33,231
find that to be true . And we know that 

941
00:39:33,231 --> 00:39:35,509
rates of false reporting are quite low . 

942
00:39:35,509 --> 00:39:37,731
So that's part . And the second piece . 

943
00:39:37,731 --> 00:39:39,676
And what makes this different than 

944
00:39:39,676 --> 00:39:41,787
civilian , the civilian society where 

945
00:39:41,787 --> 00:39:43,731
sexual assault is of course , very 

946
00:39:43,731 --> 00:39:46,710
traumatic for all victims is the 24 

947
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:49,120
hour nature of military life . So 

948
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,176
there's nothing they can do if their 

949
00:39:51,176 --> 00:39:53,120
policy , if policies are not being 

950
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,342
followed . For example , if they're not 

951
00:39:55,342 --> 00:39:57,564
getting an expedited transfer when they 

952
00:39:57,564 --> 00:40:00,250
want one , uh , then they don't have a 

953
00:40:00,250 --> 00:40:02,280
way to remedy the situation for 

954
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,336
themselves . They can't leave , they 

955
00:40:04,336 --> 00:40:06,336
can't just leave . And so they feel 

956
00:40:06,336 --> 00:40:08,169
trapped and because they feel so 

957
00:40:08,169 --> 00:40:10,224
trapped , they regret that they ever 

958
00:40:10,224 --> 00:40:12,280
came forward in the first place . So 

959
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,820
many women said when I saw what this 

960
00:40:15,820 --> 00:40:17,931
victim went through , I will tell you 

961
00:40:17,931 --> 00:40:20,350
that I myself would never make a report 

962
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,950
and that is heartbreaking . Thank you 

963
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:25,117
so much and I'm quickly running out of 

964
00:40:25,117 --> 00:40:27,228
time . I want to just point something 

965
00:40:27,228 --> 00:40:29,228
else out because I think we need to 

966
00:40:29,228 --> 00:40:31,283
think through this , not sure if you 

967
00:40:31,283 --> 00:40:33,228
all have , but in the case of an S 

968
00:40:33,228 --> 00:40:35,450
again , as an example , she had reached 

969
00:40:35,450 --> 00:40:37,672
out to her family to let them know what 

970
00:40:37,672 --> 00:40:39,894
had happened to her . There's a case at 

971
00:40:39,894 --> 00:40:41,672
Fort Bliss of a young woman who 

972
00:40:41,672 --> 00:40:44,220
committed suicide recently and she had 

973
00:40:44,220 --> 00:40:46,590
reached out to her family an alleged 

974
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,900
sexual assault as well . It's there's 

975
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:52,011
no other information attached to it , 

976
00:40:52,011 --> 00:40:54,122
but I just I keep thinking that there 

977
00:40:54,122 --> 00:40:56,289
are so many families who probably need 

978
00:40:56,289 --> 00:40:59,250
tools on how they can help as well , 

979
00:40:59,260 --> 00:41:02,670
especially younger soldiers . I I 

980
00:41:02,670 --> 00:41:06,440
think I'm a mother . If my Children 

981
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,662
reached out to me and told me they were 

982
00:41:08,662 --> 00:41:10,884
victims and they were in the military , 

983
00:41:10,884 --> 00:41:12,996
I don't know what I would do . And so 

984
00:41:12,996 --> 00:41:15,162
that's I think that's another area for 

985
00:41:15,162 --> 00:41:17,440
us to explore . I know I'm out of time . 

986
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,440
Thank you so much , Madam Chair . I 

987
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,384
think you've raised an interesting 

988
00:41:21,384 --> 00:41:23,560
piece about our no wrong door approach 

989
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,782
and when we think of no wrong door , we 

990
00:41:25,782 --> 00:41:27,893
think about it for victims themselves 

991
00:41:27,893 --> 00:41:30,116
and that wherever they go , they should 

992
00:41:30,116 --> 00:41:32,338
be able to get help . But I really like 

993
00:41:32,338 --> 00:41:34,504
the way you frame this question . What 

994
00:41:34,504 --> 00:41:36,671
is it we can do for families ? Because 

995
00:41:36,671 --> 00:41:38,560
sexual assault effects the entire 

996
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,393
family . It affects spouses , It 

997
00:41:40,393 --> 00:41:42,449
affects everyone . So I think it's a 

998
00:41:42,449 --> 00:41:44,671
really excellent question for for us to 

999
00:41:44,671 --> 00:41:48,390
consider The gentlewoman yields 

1000
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:50,446
back . The gentleman from Texas Mr . 

1001
00:41:50,446 --> 00:41:52,723
Jackson is recognized for five minutes . 

1002
00:41:52,723 --> 00:41:55,670
Thank you , madam Chair . I think Mr 

1003
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:57,892
took issue actually answered most of my 

1004
00:41:57,892 --> 00:42:00,114
questions while I go in previous ones . 

1005
00:42:00,114 --> 00:42:02,226
So I'll be I'll be brief here . But I 

1006
00:42:02,226 --> 00:42:04,559
was just what I , what I want to say is , 

1007
00:42:04,559 --> 00:42:03,840
you know , a sexual assault report is 

1008
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,951
one of the most sensitive issues that 

1009
00:42:05,951 --> 00:42:08,118
our commanders have to deal with . And 

1010
00:42:08,118 --> 00:42:07,540
I'll be honest with you , I think it's 

1011
00:42:07,540 --> 00:42:09,540
a double edged sword . I think even 

1012
00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:11,596
though most commanders don't want to 

1013
00:42:11,596 --> 00:42:11,350
relinquish you need the authority they 

1014
00:42:11,350 --> 00:42:13,572
have as commander . A lot of them would 

1015
00:42:13,572 --> 00:42:15,572
be kind of relieved to pass some of 

1016
00:42:15,572 --> 00:42:17,739
this on , you know , to someone else . 

1017
00:42:17,739 --> 00:42:19,906
It's just not something that they want 

1018
00:42:19,906 --> 00:42:19,320
to , you know , that they want to be 

1019
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,431
confronted with this kind of a no win 

1020
00:42:21,431 --> 00:42:23,487
situation a lot of times for them as 

1021
00:42:23,487 --> 00:42:25,653
well I think . But I know the handling 

1022
00:42:25,653 --> 00:42:27,820
you were talking about the way this is 

1023
00:42:27,820 --> 00:42:29,598
the way this progress is . Most 

1024
00:42:29,598 --> 00:42:31,820
commanders . A lot of them I guess have 

1025
00:42:31,820 --> 00:42:33,764
their own Jag officers that are in 

1026
00:42:33,764 --> 00:42:35,820
their chinese command . Many of them 

1027
00:42:35,820 --> 00:42:38,042
don't , but the ones that do have their 

1028
00:42:38,042 --> 00:42:39,987
have Jag as part of their chain of 

1029
00:42:39,987 --> 00:42:41,987
command , I'm assuming they utilize 

1030
00:42:41,987 --> 00:42:44,280
their own judge advocates uh in doing 

1031
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,447
this , do they ? And then and the ones 

1032
00:42:46,447 --> 00:42:48,558
that don't , I guess are forced to go 

1033
00:42:48,558 --> 00:42:50,724
outside if they want to get uh if they 

1034
00:42:50,724 --> 00:42:50,690
want to get advice from the judge 

1035
00:42:50,690 --> 00:42:52,690
advocate . Do most commanders going 

1036
00:42:52,690 --> 00:42:54,912
through this process ? Do they seek out 

1037
00:42:54,912 --> 00:42:57,023
information uh from from the from the 

1038
00:42:57,023 --> 00:42:59,023
Jag officer ? Uh and do they follow 

1039
00:42:59,023 --> 00:43:02,530
that information ? So the IRC heard 

1040
00:43:02,530 --> 00:43:05,020
sir ? That from certain commanders , 

1041
00:43:05,020 --> 00:43:06,909
both past and present , that they 

1042
00:43:06,909 --> 00:43:08,576
actually would be relieved to 

1043
00:43:08,576 --> 00:43:10,390
relinquish the prosecutorial 

1044
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:12,230
responsibilities and have those 

1045
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:14,880
responsibilities uh kept with a 

1046
00:43:14,890 --> 00:43:18,010
military prosecutor . Um most of the 

1047
00:43:18,010 --> 00:43:20,590
commanders that we spoke with also said 

1048
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,160
that um they do seek the advice of 

1049
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,680
their lawyer . However , the our 

1050
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,490
commission was very much informed by 

1051
00:43:30,490 --> 00:43:32,880
the Defense Advisory Committee on such 

1052
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,510
assault in the military . Is 2017 data 

1053
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:39,520
That highlighted 73 cases where a 

1054
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,030
judicial officer found no probable 

1055
00:43:42,030 --> 00:43:44,880
cause to believe a crime existed yet . 

1056
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,820
Nonetheless , that senior Jag 

1057
00:43:48,830 --> 00:43:51,400
advised that senior commander that the 

1058
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,567
case should be sent forward to trial . 

1059
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:55,890
Now , probable cause is a 

1060
00:43:55,890 --> 00:43:58,100
constitutional threshold issue in the 

1061
00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:00,780
United States of America Sending a case 

1062
00:44:00,780 --> 00:44:02,950
to trial where a preliminary hearing 

1063
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:05,650
officer found no probable cause does 

1064
00:44:05,650 --> 00:44:08,050
not serve victims of sexual assault and 

1065
00:44:08,050 --> 00:44:10,860
does not serve those who are suspected 

1066
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:13,430
of sexual assault . And interestingly 

1067
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:17,140
enough , out of those 73 cases , 71 

1068
00:44:17,150 --> 00:44:19,690
ended in acquittal . And of the two 

1069
00:44:19,690 --> 00:44:22,140
that didn't end an acquittal , one of 

1070
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:24,094
the two of them were overturned on 

1071
00:44:24,094 --> 00:44:26,930
appeal . So that is part of the broken 

1072
00:44:26,930 --> 00:44:29,550
trust that the IRC found as it pertains 

1073
00:44:29,550 --> 00:44:33,160
to command um having prosecutorial 

1074
00:44:33,170 --> 00:44:35,630
decision making . Yeah , I tend to 

1075
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,640
agree with that a little bit too as 

1076
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,807
well because I think a lot of it is uh 

1077
00:44:39,807 --> 00:44:41,696
if your commander , a lot of your 

1078
00:44:41,696 --> 00:44:43,751
attitude is just a kind of a C . Y . 

1079
00:44:43,751 --> 00:44:43,660
Attitude and that's probably not good 

1080
00:44:43,660 --> 00:44:47,100
for anybody in the long run . Um so I 

1081
00:44:47,110 --> 00:44:49,332
was going to ask , so it looks like the 

1082
00:44:49,332 --> 00:44:51,443
plan is to remove this from the chain 

1083
00:44:51,443 --> 00:44:53,221
of command , keep it within the 

1084
00:44:53,221 --> 00:44:55,554
military but put it in a separate chain . 

1085
00:44:55,554 --> 00:44:57,666
Is there any talk about removing this 

1086
00:44:57,666 --> 00:44:59,610
completely and completely civilian 

1087
00:44:59,610 --> 00:45:01,721
izing this process ? And you know , I 

1088
00:45:01,721 --> 00:45:03,777
don't think that's a good idea in my 

1089
00:45:03,777 --> 00:45:02,990
personal opinion , but is that being 

1090
00:45:02,990 --> 00:45:05,101
discussed and what would be the issue 

1091
00:45:05,101 --> 00:45:06,546
there , sir ? The IRC ? S 

1092
00:45:06,546 --> 00:45:08,880
recommendation was that there would be 

1093
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,440
civilian oversight in terms of a senior 

1094
00:45:12,450 --> 00:45:15,490
civilian who would fall underneath the 

1095
00:45:15,490 --> 00:45:17,323
Secretary of Defense . Now , the 

1096
00:45:17,323 --> 00:45:19,323
department disagreed with us . They 

1097
00:45:19,323 --> 00:45:21,268
have that as a back up plan in the 

1098
00:45:21,268 --> 00:45:23,490
ledge prop that came over to the hill . 

1099
00:45:23,490 --> 00:45:26,780
Um so we felt strongly as a commission 

1100
00:45:26,780 --> 00:45:29,070
that the civilian oversight was 

1101
00:45:29,070 --> 00:45:32,150
important um as a control function , 

1102
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:34,440
but also that the civilian not only 

1103
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,496
have civilian experience , but prior 

1104
00:45:36,496 --> 00:45:38,670
military justice experience . This 

1105
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,110
whole worldview or complete picture is 

1106
00:45:41,110 --> 00:45:43,277
very important because another finding 

1107
00:45:43,277 --> 00:45:45,500
we made as an IRC under recommendation 

1108
00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:48,520
1.4 is that resistance to change among 

1109
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,742
senior leaders in the Jag corps is both 

1110
00:45:50,742 --> 00:45:53,090
historic and entrenched . So we were 

1111
00:45:53,090 --> 00:45:55,490
very informed by those who we spoke 

1112
00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:59,170
with , including services T Jags who we 

1113
00:45:59,170 --> 00:46:01,337
sat face to face with and they told us 

1114
00:46:01,337 --> 00:46:04,130
what their opinion was of specializing 

1115
00:46:04,130 --> 00:46:07,310
their Jag cores . Um and the resistance 

1116
00:46:07,310 --> 00:46:09,532
to change was very apparent . So that's 

1117
00:46:09,532 --> 00:46:11,830
why we felt very strongly that civilian 

1118
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,510
oversight , not absolute control , but 

1119
00:46:14,510 --> 00:46:16,732
oversight was important . And it's also 

1120
00:46:16,732 --> 00:46:18,454
important to note that the IRC 

1121
00:46:18,454 --> 00:46:20,677
construct this concept of the office of 

1122
00:46:20,677 --> 00:46:22,343
the special victim prosecutor 

1123
00:46:22,343 --> 00:46:25,120
capitalises on using existing billets . 

1124
00:46:25,130 --> 00:46:27,241
So we're not talking about creating a 

1125
00:46:27,241 --> 00:46:29,740
brand new bureaucracy or an unwieldy 

1126
00:46:29,740 --> 00:46:31,850
bureaucracy . These billets already 

1127
00:46:31,850 --> 00:46:33,794
exists . There are already special 

1128
00:46:33,794 --> 00:46:36,017
victim prosecutors . Among the services 

1129
00:46:36,017 --> 00:46:38,080
Jag cores , the IRC recommends just 

1130
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,550
rebranding them , appointing a head 

1131
00:46:41,550 --> 00:46:43,606
special victim prosecutor one or two 

1132
00:46:43,606 --> 00:46:45,828
for each of the services , depending on 

1133
00:46:45,828 --> 00:46:47,994
what the needs of the services are and 

1134
00:46:47,994 --> 00:46:50,800
that that office be supervised by a 

1135
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,400
civilian SCS with osd oversight . Thank 

1136
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,622
you , ma'am . I appreciate that . Thank 

1137
00:46:56,622 --> 00:46:58,622
you sir . I think I'm out of time . 

1138
00:46:58,622 --> 00:47:00,456
Thank you . Gentleman's time has 

1139
00:47:00,456 --> 00:47:02,789
expired . The gentleman from texas mr V . 

1140
00:47:02,789 --> 00:47:04,733
C . Is recognized for five minutes 

1141
00:47:04,733 --> 00:47:06,900
madam Chair . Thank you very much . We 

1142
00:47:06,900 --> 00:47:09,590
had a very interesting with the , with 

1143
00:47:09,590 --> 00:47:11,646
the , with the chairwoman , we had a 

1144
00:47:11,646 --> 00:47:13,812
very interesting visit to Fort Hood to 

1145
00:47:13,812 --> 00:47:15,970
talk about some of the issues around 

1146
00:47:15,980 --> 00:47:19,720
sexual racial harassment on 

1147
00:47:19,870 --> 00:47:22,080
military bases . And I wanted to just 

1148
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,480
ask you about uh , you know , some of 

1149
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,591
the off the record conversations that 

1150
00:47:26,591 --> 00:47:28,910
we had with officers and enlistees 

1151
00:47:29,380 --> 00:47:32,490
about some of the micro aggressions and 

1152
00:47:32,490 --> 00:47:34,546
because I noticed in the report that 

1153
00:47:34,546 --> 00:47:36,768
there was a section in here just on the 

1154
00:47:36,768 --> 00:47:38,879
climate and culture and you know that 

1155
00:47:38,879 --> 00:47:41,046
there really does seem to be a problem 

1156
00:47:41,046 --> 00:47:43,268
in that area . And I think that they're 

1157
00:47:43,268 --> 00:47:45,490
trying to address that and take it more 

1158
00:47:45,490 --> 00:47:47,712
seriously . But I was just curious like 

1159
00:47:47,712 --> 00:47:49,879
how the how do you think some of these 

1160
00:47:49,879 --> 00:47:52,101
changes will will help in those areas ? 

1161
00:47:52,101 --> 00:47:54,700
I think that one of the um areas where 

1162
00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:56,867
we have a lot of issues or the sort of 

1163
00:47:56,867 --> 00:47:59,390
everyday uh you know , slights that 

1164
00:47:59,390 --> 00:48:01,760
women face that minorities face that 

1165
00:48:01,770 --> 00:48:04,010
really just come second hand to so many 

1166
00:48:04,010 --> 00:48:06,066
people and they don't really realize 

1167
00:48:06,066 --> 00:48:08,121
that they're making those , you know 

1168
00:48:08,121 --> 00:48:10,288
that they're that they're doing things 

1169
00:48:10,288 --> 00:48:09,370
like that . Like for instance , one 

1170
00:48:09,370 --> 00:48:12,550
officer um you know , told us that 

1171
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,260
uh you know , oh , you know , uh 

1172
00:48:16,270 --> 00:48:18,214
you look nice today , but oh , you 

1173
00:48:18,214 --> 00:48:20,437
can't say that . You know , we're gonna 

1174
00:48:20,437 --> 00:48:22,214
we may get in trouble if we say 

1175
00:48:22,214 --> 00:48:24,159
something like that . Can you talk 

1176
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:26,214
about how you just think that , uh , 

1177
00:48:26,214 --> 00:48:26,120
that some of these changes might help 

1178
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,231
in those , in those areas ? Because I 

1179
00:48:28,231 --> 00:48:30,231
think that is a really , really big 

1180
00:48:30,231 --> 00:48:32,287
deal and should be a big concern . I 

1181
00:48:32,287 --> 00:48:34,398
want to turn to Kai Hunter for this . 

1182
00:48:34,398 --> 00:48:36,820
Please thank you so much , sir for 

1183
00:48:36,830 --> 00:48:38,997
highlighting this . You know , I think 

1184
00:48:38,997 --> 00:48:40,719
across the board in the entire 

1185
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,870
commission and in particular in the 

1186
00:48:42,870 --> 00:48:45,092
climate and culture line of effort , we 

1187
00:48:45,092 --> 00:48:47,259
found that these lingering attitudes , 

1188
00:48:47,259 --> 00:48:50,280
beliefs , behaviors didn't just hurt 

1189
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:54,350
individuals but have a real 

1190
00:48:54,350 --> 00:48:57,430
meaningful and in my opinion , you know , 

1191
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,630
terrifying impact on our national 

1192
00:48:59,630 --> 00:49:03,460
security . If we think just about the 

1193
00:49:03,470 --> 00:49:05,581
the sexual harassment side of this in 

1194
00:49:05,581 --> 00:49:08,250
these smaller slights , a recent study 

1195
00:49:08,250 --> 00:49:11,570
found that the military loses 

1196
00:49:11,870 --> 00:49:15,590
Over 16,000 manpower hours a year 

1197
00:49:15,970 --> 00:49:18,026
because of people leaving because of 

1198
00:49:18,026 --> 00:49:20,137
these things . And and so it's a real 

1199
00:49:20,137 --> 00:49:22,248
national security issue . We also see 

1200
00:49:22,248 --> 00:49:24,900
that in the most recent um opiates data 

1201
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:28,090
on propensity to serve that young women 

1202
00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:31,350
have half of the propensity to serve of 

1203
00:49:31,350 --> 00:49:33,390
men of similar demographics there 

1204
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,160
because of fear of being harassed . And 

1205
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,327
that's that's their rationale that I'm 

1206
00:49:38,327 --> 00:49:40,438
afraid of this . So we are losing out 

1207
00:49:40,438 --> 00:49:42,604
on key recruitment intention at a time 

1208
00:49:42,604 --> 00:49:44,604
in our history where it is critical 

1209
00:49:44,604 --> 00:49:47,130
that we are able to recruit and retain 

1210
00:49:47,140 --> 00:49:49,370
from the entire force population . So 

1211
00:49:49,370 --> 00:49:51,426
when you look at our recommendations 

1212
00:49:51,426 --> 00:49:53,092
and I think in particular the 

1213
00:49:53,092 --> 00:49:55,092
recommendations that we have around 

1214
00:49:55,092 --> 00:49:57,580
selecting the right leaders and using 

1215
00:49:57,590 --> 00:50:00,330
real qualitative data to back up the 

1216
00:50:00,330 --> 00:50:03,080
quantitative data that's there is going 

1217
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:04,913
to have a big impact not just on 

1218
00:50:04,913 --> 00:50:06,747
addressing sexual harassment and 

1219
00:50:06,747 --> 00:50:08,913
assault , but on addressing so many of 

1220
00:50:08,913 --> 00:50:10,969
these everyday microaggressions that 

1221
00:50:10,969 --> 00:50:12,913
you're talking about hearing there 

1222
00:50:12,913 --> 00:50:16,430
because you harassment hate assault all 

1223
00:50:16,430 --> 00:50:19,990
exist on a continuum . Someone who is , 

1224
00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:22,430
you know , a sexual predator likely 

1225
00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:24,870
holds other damaging beliefs as well 

1226
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,102
that are there . So when we think about 

1227
00:50:27,102 --> 00:50:29,324
selecting these right leaders , what we 

1228
00:50:29,324 --> 00:50:32,240
are basing this on is the fact that 

1229
00:50:32,250 --> 00:50:35,230
people fight our wars and that without 

1230
00:50:35,230 --> 00:50:37,960
the ability to recruit and retain those 

1231
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,016
talented young women and men that we 

1232
00:50:40,016 --> 00:50:41,960
have there . It doesn't matter how 

1233
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,849
tactically competent you are as a 

1234
00:50:43,849 --> 00:50:46,071
commander , you are failing our country 

1235
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,182
that is there and you are failing these 

1236
00:50:49,182 --> 00:50:51,349
brave women and men who signed up . So 

1237
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:53,790
we really do believe that using a more 

1238
00:50:53,790 --> 00:50:55,890
comprehensive selection mechanism , 

1239
00:50:56,260 --> 00:50:58,316
using these climate surveys that are 

1240
00:50:58,316 --> 00:51:00,316
going to give real time feedback to 

1241
00:51:00,316 --> 00:51:01,871
commanders and actionable , 

1242
00:51:01,871 --> 00:51:03,927
understandable information , they're 

1243
00:51:03,927 --> 00:51:06,038
equipping them with the knowledge and 

1244
00:51:06,038 --> 00:51:08,093
skills based on their level . That's 

1245
00:51:08,093 --> 00:51:10,038
there is not only going to address 

1246
00:51:10,038 --> 00:51:12,149
sexual harassment assault , but we'll 

1247
00:51:12,149 --> 00:51:14,038
have these cascading impacts that 

1248
00:51:14,038 --> 00:51:16,260
you're talking about . And that was one 

1249
00:51:16,260 --> 00:51:18,482
thing that we heard from several people 

1250
00:51:18,482 --> 00:51:20,482
was that , you know , your decision 

1251
00:51:20,482 --> 00:51:22,538
whether or not you're going to re up 

1252
00:51:22,538 --> 00:51:24,538
depends on what sort of support you 

1253
00:51:24,538 --> 00:51:26,760
have with your in Ceo or your Ceo . And 

1254
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:26,500
that was something that was made very 

1255
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:29,020
clear to us . Uh , one other thing that 

1256
00:51:29,020 --> 00:51:31,131
I was concerned about when we were on 

1257
00:51:31,131 --> 00:51:33,550
our visit , uh , mental health . So if 

1258
00:51:33,550 --> 00:51:35,930
someone reports a sexual , you know , 

1259
00:51:35,930 --> 00:51:38,870
sexual harassment , a sexual assault 

1260
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:41,970
claim , how will you make sure that if 

1261
00:51:41,970 --> 00:51:43,748
they need to seek mental health 

1262
00:51:43,748 --> 00:51:47,490
services that it won't impact them 

1263
00:51:47,490 --> 00:51:49,434
losing their security clearance or 

1264
00:51:49,434 --> 00:51:51,657
gaining a higher security clearance ? I 

1265
00:51:51,657 --> 00:51:53,712
know that was one area that was that 

1266
00:51:53,712 --> 00:51:55,879
people were very concerned about . And 

1267
00:51:55,879 --> 00:51:57,657
obviously if you've experienced 

1268
00:51:57,657 --> 00:51:59,768
something like a sexual assault or or 

1269
00:51:59,768 --> 00:52:01,879
any or any sort of uh assault on your 

1270
00:52:01,879 --> 00:52:04,050
person , uh that could obviously also 

1271
00:52:04,050 --> 00:52:07,300
play have a mental trauma . So can you 

1272
00:52:07,300 --> 00:52:10,130
address how you would uh you know , 

1273
00:52:10,130 --> 00:52:11,920
work out that very , you know , 

1274
00:52:11,930 --> 00:52:15,420
delicate situation . We did not assess 

1275
00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:17,587
the security clearance issue , which I 

1276
00:52:17,587 --> 00:52:19,642
know has been a long term project of 

1277
00:52:19,642 --> 00:52:21,698
the department and some efforts have 

1278
00:52:21,698 --> 00:52:23,753
been made . And in the past , sexual 

1279
00:52:23,753 --> 00:52:25,753
assault reports were not required . 

1280
00:52:25,753 --> 00:52:27,587
Sexual assault treatment was not 

1281
00:52:27,587 --> 00:52:29,364
required to be reported in that 

1282
00:52:29,364 --> 00:52:31,476
question . I know that there's been a 

1283
00:52:31,476 --> 00:52:33,642
lot of effort to try to better address 

1284
00:52:33,642 --> 00:52:35,809
that security clearance question . But 

1285
00:52:35,809 --> 00:52:37,809
we did look at access to mental and 

1286
00:52:37,809 --> 00:52:39,864
behavioral health services to ensure 

1287
00:52:39,864 --> 00:52:42,087
that it's accessible and that it can be 

1288
00:52:42,087 --> 00:52:45,270
obtained confidentially . Thank you 

1289
00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:47,492
very much . Thank you , madam . Chair . 

1290
00:52:50,050 --> 00:52:52,140
Gentleman's time has expired . 

1291
00:52:53,250 --> 00:52:55,194
Gentlewoman from California . Miss 

1292
00:52:55,194 --> 00:52:57,417
Jacobs is recognized for five minutes . 

1293
00:52:57,417 --> 00:52:59,639
Thank you Madam Chair and thank you all 

1294
00:52:59,639 --> 00:53:01,861
for being here and for all of your hard 

1295
00:53:01,861 --> 00:53:04,083
work on this topic . I know it's not an 

1296
00:53:04,083 --> 00:53:06,250
easy thing to be working on day in and 

1297
00:53:06,250 --> 00:53:08,139
day out . Um and we really really 

1298
00:53:08,139 --> 00:53:10,306
appreciate it . Um General johnson , I 

1299
00:53:10,306 --> 00:53:12,250
wanted to follow up on some points 

1300
00:53:12,250 --> 00:53:14,083
earlier around the importance of 

1301
00:53:14,083 --> 00:53:17,560
prevention . Um In your report , 

1302
00:53:17,570 --> 00:53:20,860
a senior leader is quoted saying right 

1303
00:53:20,860 --> 00:53:23,027
now it is easier to hold the commander 

1304
00:53:23,027 --> 00:53:25,082
accountable for an incident than the 

1305
00:53:25,082 --> 00:53:27,310
environment before the incident . And I 

1306
00:53:27,310 --> 00:53:29,532
think all of us here today are grateful 

1307
00:53:29,532 --> 00:53:31,588
that we're finally moving forward on 

1308
00:53:31,588 --> 00:53:33,790
ways to hold some people accountable 

1309
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,040
when there is an incident . But what 

1310
00:53:36,050 --> 00:53:38,106
more can we do to make sure that the 

1311
00:53:38,106 --> 00:53:40,272
commanding officers who permit such an 

1312
00:53:40,272 --> 00:53:42,494
environment of impunity to exist in the 

1313
00:53:42,494 --> 00:53:44,772
first place are also being disciplined ? 

1314
00:53:44,772 --> 00:53:46,939
Um in your earlier answer , you stated 

1315
00:53:46,939 --> 00:53:46,860
that too many ceos lack the 

1316
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:49,250
competencies to create an environment 

1317
00:53:49,250 --> 00:53:51,417
in which sexual harassment and assault 

1318
00:53:51,417 --> 00:53:53,583
are simply not tolerated . And I guess 

1319
00:53:53,583 --> 00:53:55,861
I'm just wondering how that's possible . 

1320
00:53:55,861 --> 00:53:57,972
Given the very , very many years this 

1321
00:53:57,972 --> 00:54:00,194
committee has focused on this problem . 

1322
00:54:02,140 --> 00:54:04,370
Thank you very much for that question . 

1323
00:54:04,370 --> 00:54:08,250
Congresswoman I am , I would say that 

1324
00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:12,730
our focus was all primary prevention . 

1325
00:54:12,740 --> 00:54:15,110
So everything we looked at was before 

1326
00:54:15,110 --> 00:54:17,900
the event . So accountability , any of 

1327
00:54:17,900 --> 00:54:20,330
that separate . But when we looked at 

1328
00:54:20,330 --> 00:54:22,552
before the event , it was very clear to 

1329
00:54:22,552 --> 00:54:25,040
us that leaders really require these 

1330
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,929
competencies that are based on an 

1331
00:54:26,929 --> 00:54:28,762
understanding of public health , 

1332
00:54:28,940 --> 00:54:31,550
behavioral health , social sciences , 

1333
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:35,180
sociology , um that doesn't exist 

1334
00:54:35,180 --> 00:54:37,540
today . And so our recommendation was 

1335
00:54:37,540 --> 00:54:40,640
that the department uh determine what 

1336
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,473
are those defined those specific 

1337
00:54:42,473 --> 00:54:44,590
competencies . And you would have to 

1338
00:54:44,590 --> 00:54:47,600
look at the social ecological model in 

1339
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,550
the report that was designed with the D . 

1340
00:54:50,550 --> 00:54:52,830
O . D . In mind . Right ? So depending 

1341
00:54:52,830 --> 00:54:55,030
on where you are in that model as a 

1342
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:57,030
leader , whether you're a frontline 

1343
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:59,252
leader or again the most senior leaders 

1344
00:54:59,252 --> 00:55:01,419
in the services or in the department , 

1345
00:55:01,419 --> 00:55:03,586
um you would recognize that you have a 

1346
00:55:03,586 --> 00:55:05,808
role in that model and then it would be 

1347
00:55:05,808 --> 00:55:07,810
a matter of how you develop those 

1348
00:55:07,820 --> 00:55:10,240
competencies . And then so once the 

1349
00:55:10,250 --> 00:55:13,000
department of designs the model , the 

1350
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,090
services would then develop those 

1351
00:55:15,090 --> 00:55:17,370
competencies and individuals and at 

1352
00:55:17,370 --> 00:55:20,300
every level then this is the key . It 

1353
00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:22,244
has to be evaluated . This is your 

1354
00:55:22,244 --> 00:55:24,356
point , it has to be evaluated . Some 

1355
00:55:24,356 --> 00:55:26,510
of this crosses over into what the 

1356
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,576
culture and climate has looked at in 

1357
00:55:28,576 --> 00:55:30,798
terms of ensuring that , you know , you 

1358
00:55:30,798 --> 00:55:32,687
have processes for evaluating and 

1359
00:55:32,687 --> 00:55:34,798
selecting the right leaders that that 

1360
00:55:34,798 --> 00:55:37,020
ties into this , but you would actually 

1361
00:55:37,020 --> 00:55:39,740
have um , leaders um talking to their 

1362
00:55:39,740 --> 00:55:42,810
subordinate leaders about prevention in 

1363
00:55:42,810 --> 00:55:45,143
a more meaningful way that exists today . 

1364
00:55:45,143 --> 00:55:48,590
Is it ? Thank you . Um , and it's my 

1365
00:55:48,590 --> 00:55:50,950
understanding that on these panels 

1366
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:53,340
there are actually very few women were 

1367
00:55:53,340 --> 00:55:55,451
now at the full accountability on the 

1368
00:55:55,451 --> 00:55:58,700
prevention piece , um , and in part 

1369
00:55:58,710 --> 00:56:01,040
because they're systematically removed 

1370
00:56:01,050 --> 00:56:03,160
from juries for cause as part of the 

1371
00:56:03,170 --> 00:56:05,337
Guardia process , I was just wondering 

1372
00:56:05,337 --> 00:56:07,170
Mr Evans all to do , analyze the 

1373
00:56:07,170 --> 00:56:09,337
fairness and representativeness of the 

1374
00:56:09,337 --> 00:56:11,003
jury selection process . What 

1375
00:56:11,003 --> 00:56:13,226
conclusions did you reach if it was not 

1376
00:56:13,226 --> 00:56:15,337
part of the review ? Why not ? And do 

1377
00:56:15,337 --> 00:56:17,281
you agree that systemic removal of 

1378
00:56:17,281 --> 00:56:19,337
women and victims advocates would be 

1379
00:56:19,337 --> 00:56:21,281
deemed unacceptable , perhaps even 

1380
00:56:21,281 --> 00:56:23,392
unconstitutional in civilian courts ? 

1381
00:56:23,392 --> 00:56:23,320
We did look at the jury polish , and I 

1382
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,542
want to turn to meg and to address that 

1383
00:56:25,542 --> 00:56:28,750
question . Yes . So we did look at that 

1384
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,700
uh issue with respect to the jury pool 

1385
00:56:31,710 --> 00:56:33,690
and that was why one of our 

1386
00:56:33,690 --> 00:56:35,870
recommendations is that especially 

1387
00:56:35,870 --> 00:56:37,981
sentencing should be taken out of the 

1388
00:56:37,981 --> 00:56:41,030
hands of military panels and placed 

1389
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:43,363
squarely in the hands of military judge , 

1390
00:56:43,363 --> 00:56:46,730
judges . Um And judges alone , um we 

1391
00:56:46,730 --> 00:56:49,740
didn't do an in depth dive on the voir 

1392
00:56:49,740 --> 00:56:53,560
dire process and the how or why um 

1393
00:56:53,570 --> 00:56:57,160
women might be eliminated . Um Of 

1394
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,590
course , council could always issue a 

1395
00:56:59,590 --> 00:57:03,000
challenge as to why opposing 

1396
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,610
counsel struck a woman from the court 

1397
00:57:05,610 --> 00:57:09,240
martial panel , but we did not go into 

1398
00:57:09,250 --> 00:57:12,610
the in depth details court martial by 

1399
00:57:12,610 --> 00:57:14,760
court martial . And quite frankly , I 

1400
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,480
would be surprised if data even exists 

1401
00:57:17,490 --> 00:57:20,850
in the armed forces analyzing jury 

1402
00:57:20,850 --> 00:57:22,628
selection . I think it would be 

1403
00:57:22,628 --> 00:57:24,850
fascinating . I think that it's an area 

1404
00:57:24,850 --> 00:57:27,610
that's really ripe for some uh 

1405
00:57:27,620 --> 00:57:31,170
discovery of what's going on um with 

1406
00:57:31,170 --> 00:57:33,059
respect to the selection of panel 

1407
00:57:33,059 --> 00:57:35,170
members . But it's just not something 

1408
00:57:35,170 --> 00:57:37,940
that we were able to to do a deep 

1409
00:57:37,940 --> 00:57:41,280
analysis of . Okay well maybe Madam 

1410
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,447
Chair , that's something we can we can 

1411
00:57:43,447 --> 00:57:45,780
ask the idea that I will yield back now . 

1412
00:57:46,530 --> 00:57:48,610
I think the general lady we had 

1413
00:57:48,610 --> 00:57:52,110
recommended random randomizing the jury 

1414
00:57:52,110 --> 00:57:54,970
selection . Did you not recommend that 

1415
00:57:54,970 --> 00:57:57,430
in your I . R . C . Recommendations ? 

1416
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,384
Yes ma'am . We also heard from the 

1417
00:57:59,384 --> 00:58:01,650
services that randomized selection is 

1418
00:58:01,650 --> 00:58:04,240
going through a pilot program currently . 

1419
00:58:04,250 --> 00:58:07,940
Uh So the I . R . C . Liked 

1420
00:58:07,950 --> 00:58:10,660
that idea which is why our 

1421
00:58:10,660 --> 00:58:13,070
recommendation to keep the 

1422
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,640
logistical um process of 

1423
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:18,584
convening a court martial with the 

1424
00:58:18,584 --> 00:58:21,350
command because we felt confident that 

1425
00:58:21,350 --> 00:58:24,340
with the randomized selection of 

1426
00:58:24,820 --> 00:58:28,050
juries and with councils wadia 

1427
00:58:28,050 --> 00:58:32,000
process um we would be able to overcome 

1428
00:58:32,010 --> 00:58:34,370
the perception that commanders are hand 

1429
00:58:34,370 --> 00:58:36,820
picking the juries , that they want to 

1430
00:58:36,820 --> 00:58:39,750
be able to achieve a particular result . 

1431
00:58:40,220 --> 00:58:43,460
The IRC was persuaded by the services 

1432
00:58:43,460 --> 00:58:45,516
who told us that the commander is in 

1433
00:58:45,516 --> 00:58:48,630
the best position to make again , very 

1434
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:51,590
logistical decisions about availability . 

1435
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,200
So for example , is this particular 

1436
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,530
service member on maternity leave or 

1437
00:58:56,530 --> 00:58:59,070
paternity leave ? Is this member within 

1438
00:58:59,070 --> 00:59:02,600
my charge on deployment ? So we felt 

1439
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,880
compelled and persuaded by uh this 

1440
00:59:05,890 --> 00:59:09,100
argument that the logistical uh 

1441
00:59:09,110 --> 00:59:11,420
mechanism of of convening the court 

1442
00:59:11,420 --> 00:59:13,170
martial was best kept with the 

1443
00:59:13,170 --> 00:59:15,900
commander because it was just that a 

1444
00:59:15,900 --> 00:59:18,230
purely logistical function , we felt 

1445
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:21,360
very secure in the fact that the use of 

1446
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,170
randomized selection for juries is a 

1447
00:59:24,170 --> 00:59:26,170
step in the right direction coupled 

1448
00:59:26,170 --> 00:59:28,003
with individual council of Wajir 

1449
00:59:28,003 --> 00:59:30,810
process um were protections enough to 

1450
00:59:30,810 --> 00:59:33,060
make sure that commanders weren't quote 

1451
00:59:33,060 --> 00:59:35,950
stacking the jury's unquote to achieve 

1452
00:59:35,950 --> 00:59:39,030
a particular result . Thank you . Um 

1453
00:59:40,220 --> 00:59:42,650
Mr Brown from Maryland is recognized 

1454
00:59:42,650 --> 00:59:44,706
for five minutes . Thank you , Madam 

1455
00:59:44,706 --> 00:59:46,761
Chair . And again , thank you to you 

1456
00:59:46,761 --> 00:59:48,817
and the committee for allowing me to 

1457
00:59:48,817 --> 00:59:50,928
waive onto the committee uh to the to 

1458
00:59:50,928 --> 00:59:53,094
the panelists of uh members of the R . 

1459
00:59:53,094 --> 00:59:55,540
C . I am truly grateful for your work 

1460
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,560
um like the cavalry just in time . Um , 

1461
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,727
and so I really really appreciate your 

1462
01:00:01,727 --> 01:00:04,250
work . Um , So as um , I asked earlier 

1463
01:00:04,260 --> 01:00:08,050
uh , with uh , DR Hicks , uh , and 

1464
01:00:08,060 --> 01:00:10,450
others have identified some areas where 

1465
01:00:10,450 --> 01:00:12,580
the D . O . D . Is not accepting some 

1466
01:00:12,580 --> 01:00:15,510
of the recommendations . Um the the one 

1467
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:17,621
that that that seems that troubled me 

1468
01:00:17,621 --> 01:00:21,410
the most um has to do with uh the 

1469
01:00:21,420 --> 01:00:25,010
uh special victim categories . And and 

1470
01:00:25,010 --> 01:00:28,000
the the IRC . You had , you had three 

1471
01:00:28,010 --> 01:00:31,270
categories . One was offenses , the 

1472
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:35,050
second was the trade of victims . And 

1473
01:00:35,060 --> 01:00:37,227
and number three was the intent of the 

1474
01:00:37,227 --> 01:00:39,338
offender . It's my understanding that 

1475
01:00:39,338 --> 01:00:41,338
the department is willing to accept 

1476
01:00:41,338 --> 01:00:43,560
category one and only Category one . Is 

1477
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:45,671
that is that is that accurate ? Yes , 

1478
01:00:45,671 --> 01:00:47,782
that's our understanding , sir . So , 

1479
01:00:47,782 --> 01:00:50,330
so this is the scenario that would 

1480
01:00:50,330 --> 01:00:52,219
bother me and maybe tell me if it 

1481
01:00:52,219 --> 01:00:54,790
bothers you or not . I mean if you have 

1482
01:00:54,790 --> 01:00:58,240
an intimate partner who chooses to 

1483
01:00:58,810 --> 01:01:02,640
embezzle their partner to otherwise 

1484
01:01:02,930 --> 01:01:06,380
commit some form of theft against their 

1485
01:01:06,380 --> 01:01:09,510
partner . Um would that be covered by 

1486
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:13,460
Category 1 ? So it wouldn't 

1487
01:01:13,460 --> 01:01:16,280
be covered by category one per se 

1488
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,010
because embezzlement is not an 

1489
01:01:18,010 --> 01:01:21,730
inherently special victim crime , But 

1490
01:01:21,740 --> 01:01:23,851
the crime as you described , it would 

1491
01:01:23,851 --> 01:01:25,907
be covered under the ICC recommended 

1492
01:01:25,907 --> 01:01:28,620
construct because of the interpersonal 

1493
01:01:28,670 --> 01:01:30,781
nature and relationship that you just 

1494
01:01:30,781 --> 01:01:32,892
spoke . But that's only if you accept 

1495
01:01:32,892 --> 01:01:35,003
category two . Yes , sir . Right . So 

1496
01:01:35,003 --> 01:01:37,226
that's my concern . I mean , you've got 

1497
01:01:37,226 --> 01:01:39,392
a what I think is very comprehensive , 

1498
01:01:39,392 --> 01:01:41,680
thoughtful approach , best practice , 

1499
01:01:41,690 --> 01:01:44,110
evidence based , you know , special 

1500
01:01:44,110 --> 01:01:46,443
victims units created like we have in U . 

1501
01:01:46,443 --> 01:01:48,388
S . Attorney's Office , in State's 

1502
01:01:48,388 --> 01:01:50,499
Attorney's Office , the department is 

1503
01:01:50,499 --> 01:01:52,666
coming in and saying yes , 60 day , 90 

1504
01:01:52,666 --> 01:01:54,888
day , excellent work . We're adopting , 

1505
01:01:55,210 --> 01:01:57,099
but not everything . So , I think 

1506
01:01:57,099 --> 01:01:59,099
there's some real concerns here and 

1507
01:01:59,099 --> 01:02:01,321
that what ends up happening is you have 

1508
01:02:01,321 --> 01:02:03,488
this Pink court and if it's cases that 

1509
01:02:03,488 --> 01:02:06,120
look purely sexual in nature , great , 

1510
01:02:06,130 --> 01:02:08,130
you'll get the special , you know , 

1511
01:02:08,130 --> 01:02:10,330
independent trial counsel , making 

1512
01:02:10,330 --> 01:02:12,219
decisions about referral to court 

1513
01:02:12,219 --> 01:02:14,386
martial , but everything else it stays 

1514
01:02:14,386 --> 01:02:16,108
with the commander . That's my 

1515
01:02:16,108 --> 01:02:18,330
fundamental concern . You're you're not 

1516
01:02:18,330 --> 01:02:20,500
wrong with the I . R . C . The IRC 

1517
01:02:20,510 --> 01:02:22,732
believes strongly in the fact that this 

1518
01:02:22,732 --> 01:02:24,510
case , as you described in your 

1519
01:02:24,510 --> 01:02:26,732
hypothetical would be a special victims 

1520
01:02:26,732 --> 01:02:28,566
case and they're real because it 

1521
01:02:28,566 --> 01:02:30,990
happens all the time . Absolutely . So , 

1522
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,480
Mr Rosendahl , the commission 

1523
01:02:34,530 --> 01:02:37,480
found that due to the breadth and depth 

1524
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,620
of the lack of trust by junior enlisted 

1525
01:02:40,620 --> 01:02:42,787
service members in commanders , it was 

1526
01:02:42,787 --> 01:02:44,898
determined that the status quo or any 

1527
01:02:44,898 --> 01:02:47,120
variation of status quo , that retained 

1528
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:49,231
commanders as disposition authorities 

1529
01:02:49,231 --> 01:02:51,398
and sexual harassment , sexual assault 

1530
01:02:51,398 --> 01:02:53,509
and related cases would fail to offer 

1531
01:02:53,509 --> 01:02:52,970
the change required to restore 

1532
01:02:52,970 --> 01:02:54,803
confidence in the system as I am 

1533
01:02:54,803 --> 01:02:57,000
hearing testimony as I've heard from 

1534
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,222
the department as I read the report . I 

1535
01:02:59,222 --> 01:03:01,389
mean , trust is huge here . That seems 

1536
01:03:01,389 --> 01:03:03,611
to be and correct me if I'm wrong , not 

1537
01:03:03,611 --> 01:03:05,778
the only , but perhaps one of the most 

1538
01:03:05,778 --> 01:03:08,700
motivating factors in . What is this ? 

1539
01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:12,440
A a significant reform of court 

1540
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,662
martial referrals trust , the lack of , 

1541
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,200
I mean , is that accurate or that's 

1542
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,367
correct . That's our top finding . And 

1543
01:03:19,367 --> 01:03:21,540
it's part of this chasm between what 

1544
01:03:21,540 --> 01:03:23,707
senior leaders say about the problem . 

1545
01:03:23,707 --> 01:03:25,929
There's no tolerance for sexual assault 

1546
01:03:25,929 --> 01:03:28,151
and harassment and what junior enlisted 

1547
01:03:28,151 --> 01:03:30,850
members experience , which is 100% 

1548
01:03:30,850 --> 01:03:33,750
tolerance in some cases . That chasm is 

1549
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:35,860
what creates the lack of trust . The 

1550
01:03:35,860 --> 01:03:38,050
lack of trust is our key finding . It 

1551
01:03:38,050 --> 01:03:39,494
doesn't only apply to the 

1552
01:03:39,494 --> 01:03:41,828
accountability line of effort . However , 

1553
01:03:41,828 --> 01:03:43,994
it applies to having a victim advocacy 

1554
01:03:43,994 --> 01:03:46,210
work force that is qualified to meet 

1555
01:03:46,210 --> 01:03:48,266
the needs of victims . It applies to 

1556
01:03:48,266 --> 01:03:50,266
how victims are handled and treated 

1557
01:03:50,266 --> 01:03:52,400
across the board . What we see this 

1558
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,400
reluctance to report has to do with 

1559
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,400
this when someone who's experienced 

1560
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,130
sexual assault sees how their peer is 

1561
01:03:59,130 --> 01:04:01,670
handled , when they to experience 

1562
01:04:01,670 --> 01:04:03,448
sexual assault and they see the 

1563
01:04:03,448 --> 01:04:05,360
bullying and the ostracism that 

1564
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,390
commanders are not stepping in and 

1565
01:04:07,390 --> 01:04:10,140
taking charge of . And let me love that . 

1566
01:04:10,140 --> 01:04:12,140
And I appreciate that . Let me just 

1567
01:04:12,140 --> 01:04:14,307
jump in . I think that lack of trust , 

1568
01:04:14,307 --> 01:04:16,529
I know it wasn't in the scope . I think 

1569
01:04:16,529 --> 01:04:18,529
that lack of trust spills over in a 

1570
01:04:18,529 --> 01:04:20,473
huge way when it comes to race and 

1571
01:04:20,473 --> 01:04:22,640
ethnicity under prosecution for sexual 

1572
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:24,751
assaults over prosecution . Black and 

1573
01:04:24,751 --> 01:04:26,973
brown service members . Mr Cash in your 

1574
01:04:26,973 --> 01:04:29,140
personal opinion . Do you think that , 

1575
01:04:29,140 --> 01:04:30,920
um , removing all felony , um , 

1576
01:04:30,930 --> 01:04:33,410
offenses or treating them the same way 

1577
01:04:33,410 --> 01:04:35,132
that you , that the commission 

1578
01:04:35,132 --> 01:04:37,140
recommends we treat sexual assault 

1579
01:04:37,140 --> 01:04:39,196
cases ? Do you think that would make 

1580
01:04:39,196 --> 01:04:41,810
sense ? So to be clear , I came onto 

1581
01:04:41,810 --> 01:04:43,810
this commission and I had to from a 

1582
01:04:43,810 --> 01:04:46,032
place of neutrality . Obviously , I had 

1583
01:04:46,032 --> 01:04:48,143
military former military service as a 

1584
01:04:48,143 --> 01:04:50,254
special victim prosecutor in the army 

1585
01:04:50,254 --> 01:04:52,199
and I'm a current assistant United 

1586
01:04:52,199 --> 01:04:53,866
States Attorney . So a career 

1587
01:04:53,866 --> 01:04:55,866
prosecutor by trade . Um , I had to 

1588
01:04:55,866 --> 01:04:58,088
come to this commission from a place of 

1589
01:04:58,088 --> 01:05:00,500
neutrality because the task required 

1590
01:05:00,790 --> 01:05:04,390
nothing less . Our charter was very , 

1591
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,300
very narrow , narrowly focused . If we 

1592
01:05:07,300 --> 01:05:10,620
had another 90 days , we could maybe 

1593
01:05:10,620 --> 01:05:13,470
examine whether all felonies , 

1594
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:16,260
uh , if there's even a problem that 

1595
01:05:16,260 --> 01:05:19,370
exists with that , with all felonies 

1596
01:05:19,380 --> 01:05:21,420
uttering false checks . Larceny 

1597
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:24,200
homicide , that was just not in our 

1598
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,540
charter . Um , and what we were focused 

1599
01:05:27,540 --> 01:05:29,651
on where sexual harassment and sexual 

1600
01:05:29,651 --> 01:05:32,190
assault and so as we focused on that , 

1601
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,420
that is how we landed on this lack of 

1602
01:05:35,420 --> 01:05:37,720
trust in the system . And again , I 

1603
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:39,820
think to , to your initial point , 

1604
01:05:39,830 --> 01:05:42,740
congressman Brown is that it's because 

1605
01:05:42,750 --> 01:05:44,806
these crimes are so interpersonal in 

1606
01:05:44,806 --> 01:05:46,639
nature . It's what makes them so 

1607
01:05:46,639 --> 01:05:49,990
complex and requires independent , 

1608
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:51,680
highly trained special victim 

1609
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:54,040
prosecutors . Because these crimes are 

1610
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:56,096
unique , they're different . They're 

1611
01:05:56,096 --> 01:05:58,151
not uttering a false check . They're 

1612
01:05:58,151 --> 01:06:00,318
not Hamas , you know , a homicide with 

1613
01:06:00,318 --> 01:06:02,630
no other motives . They're not a 

1614
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,940
larceny of barracks larceny , These are 

1615
01:06:04,940 --> 01:06:06,940
crimes that are so interpersonal in 

1616
01:06:06,940 --> 01:06:10,080
nature . They demand , uh , and they 

1617
01:06:10,090 --> 01:06:12,670
should have the specialization of 

1618
01:06:12,670 --> 01:06:15,370
special victim prosecutors and other 

1619
01:06:15,380 --> 01:06:18,070
specialized trained investigators and 

1620
01:06:18,070 --> 01:06:21,490
victim advocates to be able to champion 

1621
01:06:21,490 --> 01:06:23,323
these cases through the military 

1622
01:06:23,323 --> 01:06:25,379
justice system . Gentleman's time is 

1623
01:06:25,379 --> 01:06:27,601
exactly here . Um let me just follow up 

1624
01:06:27,601 --> 01:06:29,712
with that briefly miss to cash in the 

1625
01:06:29,712 --> 01:06:33,510
case of the tragic death of 

1626
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:37,280
Vanessa again um under the D . O . 

1627
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,490
D . Proposal . 

1628
01:06:41,180 --> 01:06:44,920
That case would not come under the 

1629
01:06:45,140 --> 01:06:47,370
aegis of the special victims unit . 

1630
01:06:47,370 --> 01:06:51,370
Correct , correct . It would come 

1631
01:06:51,380 --> 01:06:55,290
under the special victim prosecutor 

1632
01:06:55,290 --> 01:06:58,500
construct that the IRC has recommended 

1633
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,090
and the IRC would have taken 

1634
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,320
mississippians case and we would have 

1635
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,910
taken it because during the course of 

1636
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:10,150
the homicide investigation , when 

1637
01:07:10,150 --> 01:07:12,990
investigators learned that Miss Gideon 

1638
01:07:12,990 --> 01:07:15,710
was previously sexually harassed , 

1639
01:07:17,380 --> 01:07:19,460
that trained military criminal 

1640
01:07:19,460 --> 01:07:22,290
investigator would have contacted the 

1641
01:07:22,290 --> 01:07:24,790
special victim prosecutor who then 

1642
01:07:24,790 --> 01:07:27,990
would have moved to action And 

1643
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,920
addressed the sexual harassment case . 

1644
01:07:30,930 --> 01:07:33,600
But what we know from fiscal year 2019 

1645
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:35,860
data and the Fort Hood report as it 

1646
01:07:35,860 --> 01:07:39,770
pertained to army c . i . d . 

1647
01:07:39,770 --> 01:07:43,140
92 of the criminal investigators at 

1648
01:07:43,140 --> 01:07:44,640
Fort Hood texas during the 

1649
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,696
investigation investigation were not 

1650
01:07:46,696 --> 01:07:48,862
even properly credentialed , they were 

1651
01:07:48,862 --> 01:07:51,029
apprentices weren't they ? They were . 

1652
01:07:51,029 --> 01:07:53,140
And so that phone call was never made 

1653
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,120
and that is a tragedy . That is why 

1654
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:58,480
this commission feels so deeply about 

1655
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:02,360
the three categories that that defined 

1656
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,920
the special victim construct . And so 

1657
01:08:04,930 --> 01:08:07,210
we are here to say that we would have 

1658
01:08:07,210 --> 01:08:09,390
taken your family's case . 

1659
01:08:10,570 --> 01:08:14,380
Absolutely . Uh The other issue 

1660
01:08:14,380 --> 01:08:17,010
that is um plaguing me as well as child 

1661
01:08:17,010 --> 01:08:19,490
abuse under what the Department of 

1662
01:08:19,490 --> 01:08:22,170
Defense has recommended child abuse 

1663
01:08:22,170 --> 01:08:24,003
would not come under the special 

1664
01:08:24,003 --> 01:08:27,190
victims review . Therefore that the 

1665
01:08:27,190 --> 01:08:30,360
child would be subject to . Um I think 

1666
01:08:30,370 --> 01:08:33,630
undo challenges in terms of testifying 

1667
01:08:33,630 --> 01:08:35,686
and the like as well . What are your 

1668
01:08:35,686 --> 01:08:37,920
thoughts on that ? There may be no more 

1669
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,660
special victim that greater than a 

1670
01:08:40,660 --> 01:08:44,270
child um for a whole host of reasons 

1671
01:08:44,270 --> 01:08:47,390
and that is also why the IRC 

1672
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:50,930
included Children um , and also the 

1673
01:08:50,930 --> 01:08:52,652
elderly in our special victims 

1674
01:08:52,652 --> 01:08:56,480
construct . All right . I 

1675
01:08:56,480 --> 01:08:59,640
think we've covered everything . Mr 

1676
01:08:59,650 --> 01:09:01,860
Gallagher Gallagher . Do you have any 

1677
01:09:01,870 --> 01:09:04,148
final questions or comments ? I do not , 

1678
01:09:04,148 --> 01:09:06,314
but I just want to thank our witnesses 

1679
01:09:06,314 --> 01:09:08,314
for not only being here today , but 

1680
01:09:08,314 --> 01:09:10,426
just for all the work and energy they 

1681
01:09:10,426 --> 01:09:12,537
put into this report . This is a very 

1682
01:09:12,537 --> 01:09:15,050
fruitful discussion . Thank you . Your 

1683
01:09:15,060 --> 01:09:18,300
thank you congressman . Uh , I just 

1684
01:09:18,300 --> 01:09:20,522
want to say on behalf of all of us , um 

1685
01:09:20,522 --> 01:09:23,970
how deeply grateful we are for your 

1686
01:09:23,980 --> 01:09:27,410
professionalism for the deep 

1687
01:09:27,420 --> 01:09:30,730
understanding that you had prior to or 

1688
01:09:30,730 --> 01:09:33,680
as a result of your work that brought a 

1689
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:37,090
product to this committee that is 

1690
01:09:37,090 --> 01:09:40,550
worthy of our not just review but 

1691
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,190
implementation on every level . I 

1692
01:09:43,190 --> 01:09:45,550
really believe that , and I look 

1693
01:09:45,550 --> 01:09:48,540
forward to more opportunities to engage 

1694
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:51,330
with all of you . And , um , I want to 

1695
01:09:51,330 --> 01:09:53,163
thank you again on behalf of the 

1696
01:09:53,163 --> 01:09:55,386
american people and the Congress of the 

1697
01:09:55,386 --> 01:09:56,690
United States . We stand , Thank you .