WEBVTT 00:01.309 --> 00:03.509 Hi , I'm David Urbishek . Uh , I'll go 00:03.509 --> 00:06.750 by Dave . Uh , I was in the , uh , 343 00:06.750 --> 00:09.100 strategic reconnaissance squadron . Uh , 00:09.109 --> 00:13.039 I got there in May of 2 00:13.039 --> 00:16.670 1982 and departed in March of 00:16.670 --> 00:19.629 1985 . Uh , I got there as a second 00:19.629 --> 00:22.549 lieutenant , uh , and I , uh , left 00:22.549 --> 00:24.780 this as a fairly newly minted , uh , 00:24.790 --> 00:28.700 captain , um . And I was I started out 00:28.700 --> 00:31.860 as a Raven 3 . I upgraded to Raven 2 00:31.860 --> 00:34.259 fairly quickly . I was known for very 00:34.259 --> 00:36.659 good signal recognition , so they 00:36.659 --> 00:38.881 upgraded me to Raven 2 fairly quickly . 00:39.009 --> 00:41.580 Raven 2 is the mission director on the 00:41.580 --> 00:43.340 on the river joint , which is 00:43.340 --> 00:45.619 comparable to what they call the the TC 00:45.619 --> 00:49.279 or the tactical coordinator . Um , 00:49.610 --> 00:52.439 OK , so I'll give a brief , uh , 00:52.450 --> 00:54.783 reflection . I'm , I'm gonna talk about , 00:54.783 --> 00:57.119 uh , uh , the deployment that I was on , 00:57.290 --> 01:00.529 uh , to Khartoum , Sudan . It was an 01:00.529 --> 01:03.330 operation called Arab Farmer . So Arab 01:03.330 --> 01:07.040 Farmer was , uh , in 1983 , it was in 01:07.040 --> 01:10.230 August of 1983 , and it was a response 01:10.230 --> 01:13.169 or a US response of support to 01:13.169 --> 01:16.089 primarily to the French who were 01:16.089 --> 01:19.849 engaged in Um , operations in Chad , uh , 01:19.970 --> 01:23.940 and we were there to support them , uh , 01:24.050 --> 01:26.106 particularly since Gaddafi was doing 01:26.106 --> 01:28.610 some stuff from Libya and into Chad 01:28.610 --> 01:32.120 that was not in the US interest . So we 01:32.120 --> 01:34.569 were part of a deployment I recall was 01:34.569 --> 01:36.970 one RJ that went over that that got 01:36.970 --> 01:40.199 there uh and there was an AOA , there 01:40.199 --> 01:43.860 was an F-15 squadron , um . That that's 01:43.860 --> 01:46.370 what I recollect . Uh , there was a , 01:46.620 --> 01:50.300 there was a KC-10 , C5s . uh , we 01:50.300 --> 01:53.180 deployed out of office , uh , went 01:53.180 --> 01:55.347 through the whole mobility line . I've 01:55.347 --> 01:57.291 never actually gone through one of 01:57.291 --> 01:59.458 those before , so I , I got this was a 01:59.458 --> 02:01.624 little over a year after I got there , 02:01.624 --> 02:03.736 so I was still very young . I think I 02:03.736 --> 02:05.624 was 24 years old when I was going 02:05.624 --> 02:07.569 through this . Um , so when you go 02:07.569 --> 02:09.736 through the mobility line , you know , 02:09.736 --> 02:11.791 that's it's everything , getting all 02:11.791 --> 02:11.550 your shots , you know . Literally 02:11.550 --> 02:13.328 dropping your pants in front of 02:13.328 --> 02:15.106 everybody and getting the gamma 02:15.106 --> 02:17.470 globulin shots and all and updating my 02:17.470 --> 02:19.581 shot records for and they didn't tell 02:19.581 --> 02:22.149 us where we were going . All we were 02:22.149 --> 02:24.589 told was pack a deployment bag for 02:24.589 --> 02:26.811 anywhere between 2 weeks and 2 months . 02:26.979 --> 02:29.350 So , uh , I was called up and told that 02:29.350 --> 02:32.509 I was going.'t a question . Are you 02:32.509 --> 02:36.190 available you're going and to report to 02:36.190 --> 02:38.509 the squadron and then and then they 02:38.509 --> 02:41.440 took us over to the mobility line . Um , 02:41.729 --> 02:45.580 the , uh , uh , Commander of the whole 02:45.789 --> 02:48.169 deployment for us was Lieutenant 02:48.169 --> 02:50.280 Colonel King , I think his first name 02:50.280 --> 02:52.447 was Sean . He was with the 38th Recons 02:52.447 --> 02:54.770 squadron . He was one of the pilots . 02:56.789 --> 02:58.622 Charlie Concannon was one of the 02:58.622 --> 03:00.733 narrators , but we went as passengers 03:00.733 --> 03:04.380 on a C-5 , so we , we left on a C5 . 03:05.610 --> 03:09.460 And and then uh went to Aviano , Italy , 03:09.500 --> 03:11.789 and then when we we fueled and got 03:11.789 --> 03:13.845 something to eat and departed out of 03:13.845 --> 03:16.011 Aviano , when we got airborne , that's 03:16.011 --> 03:18.233 when Colonel King announced to us where 03:18.233 --> 03:20.419 we were going . Um , the Ravens that 03:20.419 --> 03:22.586 were going with me , I was the Raven 3 03:22.586 --> 03:24.697 on this point and I was raven 2 off I 03:25.410 --> 03:27.830 uh was uh Jeff O'Shea , who was the 03:27.830 --> 03:30.339 Raven 2 , and then Tony Morgan , who 03:30.339 --> 03:33.520 was the Raven I . So , uh , I kept in 03:33.520 --> 03:35.687 touch with these guys for many years . 03:35.687 --> 03:37.964 I still keep in touch with Tony Morgan . 03:37.964 --> 03:39.964 He's retired . He was both of those 03:39.964 --> 03:42.298 guys were senior to me by about 4 years . 03:42.298 --> 03:45.880 So , um , all right , so 03:45.880 --> 03:48.149 we , we go through the mobility line . 03:48.240 --> 03:50.759 You have to you have to write your your 03:50.759 --> 03:53.279 final letter to your closest family 03:53.279 --> 03:55.335 member that you might get killed and 03:55.335 --> 03:57.390 all of that and never had to do that 03:57.390 --> 03:59.612 before . Um , they give , they give you 03:59.612 --> 04:02.479 a little pocket Bible or or prayer 04:02.479 --> 04:04.701 books that depending on your faith I to 04:04.701 --> 04:06.646 be Jewish , so they gave me a uh a 04:06.646 --> 04:09.600 little book for , uh , you know , for 04:09.600 --> 04:11.559 Jewish servicemen . I still use it 04:11.559 --> 04:13.781 today . I kept that book it meant a lot 04:13.781 --> 04:15.781 to me . I just kept it in my flight 04:15.781 --> 04:18.040 suit pocket , so , um , and I'm , I'm 04:18.040 --> 04:20.207 not an overly observing person , but I 04:20.207 --> 04:22.373 do some of the high holy day things in 04:22.373 --> 04:24.484 Judaism , so , um , I would take that 04:24.484 --> 04:27.160 little book out and use that one . Um , 04:28.359 --> 04:31.910 So we , uh , uh , we got to , uh , we , 04:31.959 --> 04:35.880 we leave out of uh Aviano and on our 04:35.880 --> 04:38.359 way to uh to Africa . So we , we land 04:38.359 --> 04:42.119 in the Sudan , um , and you know , one 04:42.119 --> 04:44.175 of the people that's already there's 04:44.175 --> 04:46.341 already like a little camp established 04:46.341 --> 04:49.720 there for like the Advo team . So a guy 04:49.720 --> 04:51.831 comes on the plane and goes , welcome 04:51.831 --> 04:53.609 to where we're at . And we were 04:53.609 --> 04:55.553 actually at Khartoum International 04:55.553 --> 04:57.720 Airport , so , um , so we , you know , 04:57.890 --> 05:00.329 sort of , you know , you know , go 05:00.329 --> 05:02.880 through like a deployment line there to 05:02.880 --> 05:05.899 we're in processing line there and we 05:05.899 --> 05:08.121 uh we got our assignments we're gonna , 05:08.121 --> 05:10.066 where we're gonna go . We had made 05:10.066 --> 05:12.066 friends , a few of us on the on the 05:12.066 --> 05:14.177 plane made friends with the paymaster 05:14.177 --> 05:16.343 that came out with us from Omaha , and 05:16.343 --> 05:18.566 now since he wasn't a flyer , he wasn't 05:18.566 --> 05:20.677 gonna get to go to a hotel that we're 05:20.677 --> 05:22.788 gonna make him sleep in a tent . So , 05:22.788 --> 05:25.010 uh , Tony Morgan and I were roommates , 05:25.010 --> 05:27.121 so we , we invited him to just , uh , 05:27.121 --> 05:29.177 we just got caught , put in the room 05:29.177 --> 05:29.160 and he just stayed normal room , so you 05:29.160 --> 05:32.239 have to stay in town . So , um , so we 05:32.239 --> 05:35.200 were there for about 2 2.5 weeks , uh , 05:35.510 --> 05:38.000 and I guess , uh , let me , let me sort 05:38.000 --> 05:40.222 of tell you that we actually never flew 05:40.222 --> 05:43.529 operational missions on this one . we , 05:43.839 --> 05:46.061 we were there , we were waiting for the 05:46.061 --> 05:48.200 French to do something , um , which . 05:48.334 --> 05:50.390 Never actually materialized and then 05:50.390 --> 05:52.612 eventually a decision was made to to to 05:52.612 --> 05:55.404 then depart . But during those 2.5 05:55.404 --> 05:57.524 weeks , um , we started doing some 05:57.524 --> 05:59.885 practice you know training missions for 05:59.885 --> 06:01.996 the operation and , and seeing how we 06:01.996 --> 06:04.218 were going to do things so that was the 06:04.218 --> 06:06.385 first time that we'd actually . Worked 06:06.385 --> 06:08.609 in concert with the F-15s and the AMAC 06:08.609 --> 06:11.250 for an actual strike package and , and 06:11.250 --> 06:14.089 uh and I think that predates a lot of 06:14.089 --> 06:16.311 things that the RJ had ever done . So , 06:16.489 --> 06:18.690 so that was , that was unique to be 06:18.690 --> 06:21.890 involved with that . Um , you know , uh , 06:22.079 --> 06:23.746 without getting into anything 06:23.746 --> 06:26.079 classified , you know , we were able to , 06:26.079 --> 06:27.523 uh , you know , make some 06:27.523 --> 06:29.635 determinations about , you know , you 06:29.635 --> 06:31.857 know , characteristics of , of the F-15 06:31.857 --> 06:33.912 radar , the AOX radar , any anything 06:33.912 --> 06:36.023 that we thought might be particularly 06:36.023 --> 06:38.246 vulnerable that we could pick out , you 06:38.246 --> 06:40.246 know , that we think that a bad guy 06:40.246 --> 06:42.468 might have been able to exploit that we 06:42.468 --> 06:44.690 could then brief them back on as well , 06:44.690 --> 06:44.640 but we were actually looking for 06:44.640 --> 06:47.700 targeting information . Um , so we , we 06:47.700 --> 06:49.700 would practice that we flew several 06:49.700 --> 06:51.700 missions along those lines . We got 06:51.700 --> 06:53.811 daily , um , mission briefings in the 06:53.811 --> 06:56.033 back of the KC-10 , which was set up as 06:56.033 --> 06:59.070 a briefing room . Uh , Colonel , it was 06:59.070 --> 07:01.140 Lieutenant Kristen from SAC 07:01.140 --> 07:03.980 headquarters , uh , I think it was C R 07:03.980 --> 07:06.320 I S T O N . Uh , I think he eventually 07:06.320 --> 07:08.487 make a colonel , uh , like the world's 07:08.487 --> 07:10.510 best briefer ever . He was the best 07:10.510 --> 07:12.869 intel briefer . I just remember nobody 07:12.869 --> 07:15.036 ever came close to him in my Air Force 07:15.036 --> 07:17.459 career . Uh , it was just great . Um , 07:17.869 --> 07:20.910 the , uh , uh , so , so let me talk 07:20.910 --> 07:22.790 about what life was like also in 07:22.790 --> 07:24.950 cartoon a little bit . We , we stayed 07:24.950 --> 07:28.839 at the cartoon Holton . Um , which 07:29.470 --> 07:31.581 has to be the worst Hilton anywhere , 07:31.820 --> 07:35.720 right ? So there was no potable 07:35.720 --> 07:37.942 water in the hotel when you would flush 07:37.942 --> 07:41.570 a toilet or open a spigot for a shower , 07:41.690 --> 07:44.160 you'd see a lot of brown colored water 07:44.500 --> 07:46.611 coming out . So they said that it was 07:46.611 --> 07:48.667 sand that was used in the filtration 07:48.667 --> 07:50.611 system , but you know , you didn't 07:50.611 --> 07:52.444 trust it . So you had to use all 07:52.444 --> 07:54.500 bottled water even for brushing your 07:54.500 --> 07:57.359 teeth . So um . Uh , we would eat in 07:57.359 --> 08:00.079 the restaurant that they had there . 08:00.290 --> 08:02.457 You have to be careful . Uh , a lot of 08:02.457 --> 08:05.339 people had gastrointestinal problems . 08:05.769 --> 08:07.980 The , uh , one of the things I noticed 08:07.980 --> 08:10.760 also in the hotel , the staff , uh , 08:11.010 --> 08:13.066 there's no old people . In fact , in 08:13.066 --> 08:15.232 the whole country when we were there , 08:15.232 --> 08:17.010 there were no old people . Life 08:17.010 --> 08:19.121 expectancy was 39 or 40 . Uh , and if 08:19.121 --> 08:22.160 you saw all the , the , the um You know , 08:22.239 --> 08:24.350 the people there , they , they had uh 08:24.350 --> 08:26.350 yellow looking eyes . They all look 08:26.350 --> 08:28.559 jaundiced . So um there was a lot of 08:28.559 --> 08:32.320 disease there . um , very unsound and 08:32.320 --> 08:34.153 I've been I was stationed in the 08:34.153 --> 08:36.320 Philippines for 5 years . I've been to 08:36.320 --> 08:38.320 other impoverished countries in the 08:38.320 --> 08:40.153 world . Nothing has ever been as 08:40.153 --> 08:42.487 impoverished as what I saw in the Sudan . 08:42.590 --> 08:45.239 Um , there were people sleeping in an 08:45.239 --> 08:49.239 open fields at night . Um , they had 08:49.239 --> 08:52.599 walls set up in in different parts of 08:52.599 --> 08:54.599 the neighborhoods , you know , even 08:54.599 --> 08:57.450 near the hotel that were , um , You 08:57.450 --> 08:59.672 know , used for defecation . You know , 08:59.672 --> 09:02.006 people would just , you know , you know , 09:02.006 --> 09:04.061 do #1 and #2 , you know , just along 09:04.061 --> 09:06.570 the walls was so hot that the men and 09:06.570 --> 09:10.250 women just wore like these light out of 09:10.250 --> 09:12.472 linen type garments and then they would 09:12.472 --> 09:14.528 just you know lifted up and you know 09:14.528 --> 09:18.489 relieve themselves . So you know you'd 09:18.489 --> 09:20.600 go to a market to take a look and see 09:20.600 --> 09:22.933 what they sold in the market , the food , 09:22.933 --> 09:25.880 the food all all looked like the You 09:25.880 --> 09:28.047 know , it's too dangerous to eat , you 09:28.047 --> 09:30.269 know , you know , you wouldn't wouldn't 09:30.269 --> 09:30.000 want to touch any of that . They 09:30.000 --> 09:32.400 delivered meat to the hotel that was 09:32.400 --> 09:36.320 not refrigerated and uh it was it 09:36.320 --> 09:39.210 was bad . Um , the uh 09:39.849 --> 09:41.960 cartoons where the blue and the white 09:41.960 --> 09:44.200 Nile meet , so um there were like , I 09:44.200 --> 09:47.030 think we saw like some fires and and 09:47.039 --> 09:49.206 and and like even like fire trucks had 09:49.206 --> 09:51.039 to actually have hoses that that 09:51.039 --> 09:53.261 actually just went into the river to to 09:53.261 --> 09:55.469 pump out water to put out fires . So . 09:56.320 --> 09:58.209 You know , it was sort of a weird 09:58.209 --> 10:00.400 situation . Um , when they transported 10:00.400 --> 10:03.369 people around , uh , they , they use 10:03.369 --> 10:06.549 like I don't mean for this to sound 10:06.549 --> 10:08.549 insulting , but it looked like they 10:08.549 --> 10:10.660 stacked their soldiers up like oxygen 10:10.660 --> 10:12.993 bottles in the back of a big truck . Uh , 10:12.993 --> 10:15.216 everybody just sort of stuck together , 10:15.216 --> 10:17.438 you know , there was like an inhumanity 10:17.438 --> 10:19.771 about it , how they moved people around , 10:20.619 --> 10:23.710 um . It is a third world developing 10:23.710 --> 10:26.270 country . The more reasons and the 10:26.270 --> 10:29.500 attitudes are very different . The the 10:30.880 --> 10:32.880 Sudanese military that we thought , 10:33.549 --> 10:35.771 they thought that at our command post , 10:36.309 --> 10:39.750 you know , that's where we kept the 10:39.750 --> 10:40.299 women 10:44.070 --> 10:47.380 those those ways of thinking , um . The , 10:47.409 --> 10:49.520 uh , there was a bellhop that offered 10:49.520 --> 10:51.520 to like set up a tour for us at the 10:51.520 --> 10:55.390 hotel , so you know there was 10:55.390 --> 10:57.723 some , there were things like that . Um , 10:58.059 --> 11:01.210 I do want to look down to my notes 11:01.210 --> 11:03.210 because I , I did get in touch with 11:03.210 --> 11:05.321 Tony Morgan , who was the raven one , 11:06.260 --> 11:09.179 and I , uh , he had a couple of uh 11:10.450 --> 11:12.950 recollections as well . He said , yeah , 11:13.080 --> 11:16.239 the people being holed around in in 11:16.239 --> 11:19.030 what were dump trucks essentially . Um , 11:19.640 --> 11:21.918 yes , the , the swimming pool , we had , 11:22.479 --> 11:24.257 we had to ask them to chill the 11:24.257 --> 11:26.479 swimming pool . The swimming pool water 11:26.479 --> 11:28.312 was so warm that was tested with 11:28.312 --> 11:30.368 bacteria and we had to ask them to , 11:30.368 --> 11:32.701 you know , treat the swimming pool , um . 11:33.010 --> 11:36.890 Yeah Um , Let me see what else 11:36.890 --> 11:39.969 I can tell you . Uh , yeah , we , we 11:39.969 --> 11:42.950 did , we did , we did see elephants . 11:44.090 --> 11:47.159 Uh , that was pretty cool . Um , we did 11:47.159 --> 11:49.640 also see , yes , dead animals , uh , 11:49.650 --> 11:51.761 floating on the river . We saw a dead 11:51.761 --> 11:55.450 cow on the river , um . Yeah , uh . 11:57.539 --> 12:00.700 Yes , um , and when we made the 12:00.700 --> 12:02.811 decision to leave , I remember , uh , 12:02.811 --> 12:05.099 the staff of the hotel , uh , a lot of 12:05.099 --> 12:07.377 them were saying , Why are you leaving ? 12:07.377 --> 12:09.488 Why are you leaving ? You know , they 12:09.488 --> 12:11.599 were sad to see us leave and I'm sure 12:11.599 --> 12:13.877 it wasn't just the economics of having , 12:13.877 --> 12:13.859 you know , the Western guests , but I 12:13.859 --> 12:16.081 think that they they enjoyed getting to 12:16.081 --> 12:18.289 know us a little bit and 12:19.849 --> 12:22.016 and see that we were probably the good 12:22.016 --> 12:24.071 guys actually in the whole scheme of 12:24.071 --> 12:26.016 things . When we were there , Tony 12:26.016 --> 12:28.489 Morgan had a birthday . So we uh we did 12:28.489 --> 12:30.545 arrange to have like a birthday cake 12:30.545 --> 12:32.600 made for him and all that and uh you 12:32.600 --> 12:34.711 know , so that was nice , they did do 12:34.711 --> 12:38.340 that for us . Um . Let's see , 12:38.479 --> 12:42.119 uh , That may be about what I can 12:42.119 --> 12:45.320 recollect when when we redeployed , um , 12:45.359 --> 12:47.470 uh , I guess I should say this , this 12:47.470 --> 12:50.960 is in the deployment line , um , 12:51.320 --> 12:53.431 when we're going in there , there was 12:53.431 --> 12:55.431 the legal backing off you had to go 12:55.431 --> 12:57.542 through legal and do your will on the 12:57.542 --> 12:59.876 spot and so I , I do remember there was , 12:59.876 --> 13:02.153 uh , uh , and I was single at the time , 13:02.153 --> 13:04.929 so there was uh a woman she . We're not , 13:06.059 --> 13:07.892 we're not supposed to fraternize 13:07.892 --> 13:10.003 officers and almost too much , but it 13:10.003 --> 13:12.059 was an enlisted woman that was there 13:12.059 --> 13:14.281 and , and , and , um . You know , and , 13:14.281 --> 13:16.869 and she , I said to Maya ever , uh , um , 13:17.080 --> 13:19.191 you know , I , I , I said , does this 13:19.191 --> 13:21.302 mean I'm not coming home ? She goes , 13:21.302 --> 13:23.358 well , I hope you are . So I , I , I 13:23.358 --> 13:25.524 went out on a couple of dates with her 13:25.524 --> 13:27.858 when I came back , I remember that . So , 13:27.858 --> 13:30.080 um , but I , I knew that it wasn't , we 13:30.080 --> 13:29.330 weren't supposed to do that , but I , 13:29.340 --> 13:33.070 but I didn't do that , so , um . The 13:33.070 --> 13:36.940 uh Yeah , no , it was , it 13:36.940 --> 13:40.229 was , it was a very good experience . I , 13:40.299 --> 13:42.243 I have no desire to really go back 13:42.243 --> 13:44.700 there . I mean I and I had heard that 13:44.700 --> 13:47.400 the Sudan has just gotten worse , so , 13:47.409 --> 13:49.349 um , you know , but I was sort of 13:49.349 --> 13:51.969 fascinated with Africa after that . I 13:52.710 --> 13:54.821 do want to go back to Africa . At one 13:54.821 --> 13:57.043 point I was going to take an assignment 13:57.043 --> 13:59.266 as the defense attache to Zambia , um , 13:59.266 --> 14:01.321 and it was at the tail end of my Air 14:01.321 --> 14:05.200 Force career and . was not the 14:05.200 --> 14:07.311 right family decision to make , as it 14:07.311 --> 14:09.599 turned out that ended up being correct 14:09.599 --> 14:12.039 because 9/11 occurred , and I would 14:12.039 --> 14:14.317 have had to have gone by myself anyway , 14:14.317 --> 14:17.880 so that's not really how I wanted to do 14:17.880 --> 14:20.599 that . So um but one of these days I'll 14:20.599 --> 14:24.159 get back to a nice part of Africa and 14:24.159 --> 14:28.070 see the continent . Um , but that was a 14:28.070 --> 14:30.489 unique aspect of my time in the 343 . 14:31.109 --> 14:33.469 Uh , to this day , that was the best 14:33.469 --> 14:35.739 assignment that I ever had , certainly 14:35.739 --> 14:37.628 operational flying assignment . I 14:37.628 --> 14:41.349 worked with the best people . you could 14:41.349 --> 14:43.293 trust all of your colleagues . You 14:43.293 --> 14:45.460 could leave your wallet out anywhere , 14:45.460 --> 14:47.793 you didn't have to worry about anything . 14:47.793 --> 14:47.599 You know , everybody had your back . 14:48.150 --> 14:50.317 The crew coordination and the teamwork 14:50.317 --> 14:52.150 was second to none . Um , I made 14:52.150 --> 14:54.770 lifelong friends . Uh , Joe Sidey was 14:54.770 --> 14:56.492 my first crew commander . Uh , 14:59.010 --> 15:02.090 we stayed lifelong friends . He came 15:02.090 --> 15:04.312 out when I retired out of an assignment 15:04.312 --> 15:06.423 in Belgium , and Joe , I was referred 15:06.423 --> 15:08.423 to him as my big brother in the Air 15:08.423 --> 15:10.646 Force . He was about 3 or 4 years ahead 15:10.646 --> 15:12.368 of me . He came out and did my 15:12.368 --> 15:15.010 retirement in Belgium for me , and then 15:15.330 --> 15:18.219 10 years later , after that , uh . He 15:18.219 --> 15:20.441 said , why don't you come over and work 15:20.441 --> 15:22.552 for us with Calvert Systems . So I've 15:22.552 --> 15:24.775 been with them . I've been working with 15:24.775 --> 15:26.886 Joe for the last 13 years . So , um , 15:27.020 --> 15:29.131 yeah , so it's , it's one sort of big 15:29.131 --> 15:32.369 happy family still , and I , 15:33.179 --> 15:36.859 I'm very glad that the 343 was part of 15:36.859 --> 15:39.020 my early life and and you know , 15:39.500 --> 15:40.880 everything sort of stays with me still .